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Thread: Big Win for the 4th Amendment

  1. #21
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    Re: Big Win for the 4th Amendment

    You do not need a law degree to read and understand what the constitution says.This is a pretty obvious amendment - The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    The statement is not obvious and that's why they have the supreme court.

    The right of people to be secure ect--It is left up to interpretation what constitutes secure.

    against unreasonable searches and seizures -- Does not state what is or isn't unreasonable.

    but upon probable cause-- Again doesnt state what does or doesnt constitute probable cause.

    and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized-- further clarity could be needed stating that placing a GPS is a violation because tracking someone is not the same searching or seizing.

    I agree completely with the decision they reached. I am responding mostly to your statement that "You do not need a law degree to read and understand what the constitution says.This is a pretty obvious amendment". Much of our constitution, and many of our laws, ammendments, ect are very vaguely worded and subject to interpetation. Nothing is clear or obvious.

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    Re: Big Win for the 4th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I don't think it is enough. The fact is that DUI checks are searches and requires that you pull over BEFORE they have reasonable suspicion. If they see someone driving recklessly, sure that's reasonable to pull them over. Just driving on a road? I wouldn't agree. It is as it is of course, but still it's not something I can rationalize with being in line with our rights and liberties.
    I'm not going to argue that you are wrong, but it seems to me that the courts have made up their minds here.

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    Re: Big Win for the 4th Amendment

    The fact is that DUI checks are searches and requires that you pull over BEFORE they have reasonable suspicion
    I think they get around it because reasonable suspicion can be the number of people known to be drunk driving on certain days. You, I, or others may not think it qualifies as "reasonable" but others might, and more importantly, a court might.

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    Re: Big Win for the 4th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    I think they get around it because reasonable suspicion can be the number of people known to be drunk driving on certain days. You, I, or others may not think it qualifies as "reasonable" but others might, and more importantly, a court might.
    You can't be searched IMO becuase it's reasonable to think the other guy has been drinking.

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    Re: Big Win for the 4th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I'm not going to argue that you are wrong, but it seems to me that the courts have made up their minds here.
    They certainly have. As I said, I'm glad they at least drew a line here.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Big Win for the 4th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    I think they get around it because reasonable suspicion can be the number of people known to be drunk driving on certain days. You, I, or others may not think it qualifies as "reasonable" but others might, and more importantly, a court might.
    No. I mean, lots of people commit gun crimes. We have some of the highest gun crime rates of the industrialized world. That doesn't mean that you can search gun owners on suspicion of crime.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Big Win for the 4th Amendment

    You can't be searched IMO becuase it's reasonable to think the other guy has been drinking.
    I dont disagree with you. However, laws are left with these vague loopholes. Saying reasonable when it gets passed makes people feel good and not violated. Then they can interpret reasonable however they want to and change they law to suit their needs. And when someone has something to say about it they simply revert to "reasonable". Since reasonable isn't stated we are screwed.

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    Re: Big Win for the 4th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    I dont disagree with you. However, laws are left with these vague loopholes. Saying reasonable when it gets passed makes people feel good and not violated. Then they can interpret reasonable however they want to and change they law to suit their needs. And when someone has something to say about it they simply revert to "reasonable". Since reasonable isn't stated we are screwed.
    I think they use the fact that it's public road to get away with it. But it's not like we have a choice, there's not really sufficient private road to get from A to B. And we pay for that road too!
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Big Win for the 4th Amendment

    No. I mean, lots of people commit gun crimes. We have some of the highest gun crime rates of the industrialized world. That doesn't mean that you can search gun owners on suspicion of crime.
    Whats stopping them? The word reasonable. If a judge rules that gun crimes constitutes that as reasonable, we are screwed. These laws are a matter of opinion.

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