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Thread: Wash. has enough votes to legalize gay marriage

  1. #91
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    Re: Wash. has enough votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Umm even by your own admission Tigger, you have said there are only a HANDFUL of people that would meet your expectations of "moral". If you had your wish we would have a military that included maybe 10 people.
    I was speaking mostly to the morality of the sexuality issue, though there are some other isues that I would suggest disqualifying people for as well (gender being one of them).


    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    You are so damned offensive. And it makes me laugh every time.
    Laugh at this then..... Welcome to the Ignore List.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    There are a couple gays serving openly in my Company. It's not an issue. Like, at all. We don't care. We shower with gays, eat with gays, bunk with gays...it's not a problem. Women, however, are a problem, but that's a rant for another thread. The presence of gays does not disrupt "good order and discipline". They don't request special treatment, they don't hit on guys all the time...nothing like that. They're just normal folks who shoot-move-communicate just like the rest of us. Where pro-ssm gets it wrong is that the military is not a social experiment because military society is not like civilian society. DADT is about assets serving national security, not equal rights; not even employment equality because the military can bypass that as well (women in the infantry, for example).
    While I thank you for your service Jerry, I have to say that I wish you could do so in a more appropriate set of circumstances. Stay safe.

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    Re: Wash. has enough votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Great job by a bunch of amazing men. I've had the honor of meeting several SEALs and former SEALs over the years and they are truly the cream of the crop when it comes to what they do. Very glad they all came home in one piece.

    On the other hand, I am TOTALLY against using US Military personnel to go rescuing American (and especially foreign) civilians who are too stupid to stay out of harms way. Somalia is NOT a tourist destination or a safe place for Westerners to work. I would have to bet the US State Department probably suggests AGAINST US citizens traveling there for any reason. This woman chose to ignore that basic common sense. They should have let her rot.
    And what if you found out, after the fact, that a few of the Navy SEAL's you met were gay?
    Odds are good there's at least one that is, even if he/she is not open about it.

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    Re: Wash. has enough votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    And what if you found out, after the fact, that a few of the Navy SEAL's you met were gay? Odds are good there's at least one that is, even if he/she is not open about it.
    Then I would be seriously disappointed; and I will leave it at that.

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    Re: Wash. has enough votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Then I would be seriously disappointed; and I will leave it at that.

    But why? Why would something that has absolutely no effect on you, or on what they do and/or accomplish, have any impact on you what-so-ever?

    They are still elite Navy SEAL's regardless of if they are gay or straight. What makes them great in your mind has nothing to do with who they are attracted to.

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    Re: Wash. has enough votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    But why? Why would something that has absolutely no effect on you, or on what they do and/or accomplish, have any impact on you what-so-ever? They are still elite Navy SEAL's regardless of if they are gay or straight. What makes them great in your mind has nothing to do with who they are attracted to.
    I see the US Military as an extension of the country itself, more than as a group of individuals. They should represent the values and ideals of the nation, which in my mind does not include homosexuality. It's pretty much that simple.

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    Re: Wash. has enough votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I see the US Military as an extension of the country itself, more than as a group of individuals. They should represent the values and ideals of the nation, which in my mind does not include homosexuality. It's pretty much that simple.
    And it has been shown that the values of America are not your values, so then the military shouldn't garner any respect from you then because of that. Using your own words of course. This is where you are either conflicted with your values and morals or you simply are not aware of it.

    On one hand you say you don't respect what America is and on the other hand you are saying that the military is an extension of those values and morals and you respect the military. Can't have it both ways and be consistant.

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    Re: Wash. has enough votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And it has been shown that the values of America are not your values, so then the military shouldn't garner any respect from you then because of that. Using your own words of course. This is where you are either conflicted with your values and morals or you simply are not aware of it.

    On one hand you say you don't respect what America is and on the other hand you are saying that the military is an extension of those values and morals and you respect the military. Can't have it both ways and be consistant.
    Would you be happier if I characterized it as Traditional American Values versus Modern American Values? I do not believe that the values of this nation today are the values that my relatives fought for in the American Revolution and War of 1812. Nor do I believe they are what those relatives of mine who fought for the Confederacy (even though they were from CT originally) fought for either. They may be closer to what my relatives who fought for the Union army believed in. I believe there has bee a see change in American Values over the years, and it's not something I am in favor of at all. Can we just leave it at that?

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    Re: Wash. has enough votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Would you be happier if I characterized it as Traditional American Values versus Modern American Values? I do not believe that the values of this nation today are the values that my relatives fought for in the American Revolution and War of 1812. Nor do I believe they are what those relatives of mine who fought for the Confederacy (even though they were from CT originally) fought for either. They may be closer to what my relatives who fought for the Union army believed in. I believe there has bee a see change in American Values over the years, and it's not something I am in favor of at all. Can we just leave it at that?
    I'm just trying to see if you realize your inconcistancy. The military of today is idoctrinated with modern values and morals. So how can you say the military (which you say you respect) is a extension of the values and morals of America (which you don't respect)? Those are opposing views which leads to an inconsistancy.

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    Re: Wash. has enough votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I'm just trying to see if you realize your inconcistancy. The military of today is idoctrinated with modern values and morals. So how can you say the military (which you say you respect) is a extension of the values and morals of America (which you don't respect)? Those are opposing views which leads to an inconsistancy.
    Please realize that whenever I speak of America or anything related to it, I am speaking of the Traditional America that I believe this nation was founded to be, not the modern version that we have today. I see the US Military as the extension of those values that this nation was founded upon, not modern america. In fact, the US Military was one of the last bastions of most of those more Traditional values until relatively recently.

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    Re: Wash. has enough votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I see the US Military as the extension of those values that this nation was founded upon, not modern america. In fact, the US Military was one of the last bastions of most of those more Traditional values until relatively recently.
    And you would be 100% incorrect. Today's military (which includes the SEALS that you say you respect) has modern values and morals that are in many ways different to that which America was founded on. And not just recently either, this has been going on for decades.

    So how can you say you respect those SEALS when they (voluntarily) support a military that you don't respect (due to values). Remember you said anyone that SUPPORTS something you believe to be immoral or lacking of values is just as guilty.

    Clearly there is an inconsistancy in what you are saying, I'm just trying to find out if you realize that.
    Last edited by TheNextEra; 01-25-12 at 03:21 PM.

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