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Thread: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

  1. #261
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    Re: Rand Paul detained by TSA

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    How did he do any of that? He just got searched. Big deal.
    Actually, he did NOT get searched. He went through the scanner again. The second time he did not set off an alarm.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    ...yes? Everything I listed would presumably be legal and checkpoints are a part of it, so what's the problem again? How am I supposed to answer your question without stating what I think such searches would entail?
    Legally you think the government could search random people on the streets, it would just be impractical?

    No, random searches are easily defended in court by simply pointing to the fact that profiling people by specific standards of who looks 'suspicious' enables aggressors to defy the standard and work the system. Moreover, random searches are pretty prevalent in the country - in schools, at the border and so on. I don't think that there is much of an argument there.
    Yeah? I'm betting you'll never find an example where the court has ruled that way. The courts have already ruled on this. While I do not agree with it, the courts have ruled your belongings can be searched. I disagree with that ruling but there is nothing I can likely do about it. They ruled that routine searches can be performed. Like walking through a metal detector.

    To search a person there still has to be "reasonable suspicion". A random alarm is never going to be ruled a "reasonable suspicion".

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    I wish the media had given this more coverage.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I wish the media had given this more coverage.
    Only the conservative media covered it. Are you shocked ??

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    It's an argument that I disagree with.
    As yours is one I disagree with.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Most people in this country are dedicated to keeping freedom. They're just not dedicated to keeping your definition of freedom so your argument that people who don't agree aren't dedicated to freedom is unfounded and quite arrogant.
    Disagree. There are many whom are currently ok with the gross expansion of government power as is. We rather ensure that our daily lives are undisrupted, and so long as that occurs then any action of the government is deemed ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    You have said they are different, but your argument that people should look at Cuba to see the 'other side' is what I take issue with. As I said, people are quite aware of the other side and many citizens consistently act to ensure that we don't get there. However, because you disagree with their definition of freedom, you assume that they do not know about the 'other side'. That's an unfounded and arrogant claim. You need to accept that other citizens can have broader definitions of freedom than you do and still understand the 'other side'.
    Other people have varying concepts of comfort. Rights, however, are rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    This is a slippery slope argument:
    I fear that you don't quite understand the meaning of "slippery slope"

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    You've argued several times now that people's approval of the TSA may/will lead us to let the government do anything. That is the definition of a slippery slope argument.
    No, the argument is that the approval of these gross expansions of government power against our rights and liberties is currently a demonstration of that lack of will; not that it will lead to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Mmmm, yes. You stated an opinion as fact when you said, "TSA is unnecessary". How do you know that? You don't. Hence my reply. This is the same trap you always fall into: stating opinions as absolutes and then trying to shift the burden of proof onto those who've made no absolutes.
    My relative safety has not been affected by TSA. My probability of death due to terrorism is no different now than it was before TSA. It's called statistics.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Whatever.....
    Whatever indeed. Thanks for offering no argument or any demonstration of point other than dismissal.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    No, I argued that the scale of problems that such searching would make it impractical. Those are two completely different arguments.
    The base is the same, however. All you're arguing is efficiency. If there were instead a method which can passively scan everyone, you'd have no quarrel with that (at least by your arguments presented).
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The base is the same, however. All you're arguing is efficiency.
    No, I'm arguing that one is reasonable and the other is not for several reasons. Whether or not an action is reasonable is the foundation of the topic being discussed so in the context of this argument that base is not the same since the base of the two sides is either reasonable or unreasonable.

    If there were instead a method which can passively scan everyone, you'd have no quarrel with that (at least by your arguments presented).
    I agree that a passive method of scanning would be best, but I don't mind a quarrel, because at the end of the day, I think the TSA's actions are reasonable.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Disagree. There are many whom are currently ok with the gross expansion of government power as is. We rather ensure that our daily lives are undisrupted, and so long as that occurs then any action of the government is deemed ok.
    How does being okay with expansion of government mean that people aren't dedicated to freedom? All you've shown is that people aren't dedicated to your definition of freedom. However, people not guarding freedom as you see it does not mean that they are dedicated to the fight nor does it mean that they will let the United States go to the 'other side'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Other people have varying concepts of comfort. Rights, however, are rights.
    Unfortunately, our Constitution is not black and white. It requires interpretation. So again, your making unfounded assumptions about people simply because they disagree with your definition of freedom and in turn, your interpretation of rights in the Constitution.

    I fear that you don't quite understand the meaning of "slippery slope"
    A slippery slope argument states that a relatively small first step leads to a chain of related events culminating in some significant effect, much like an object given a small push over the edge of a slope sliding all the way to the bottom

    Slippery slope - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Your argument fits that definition, but I don't fear anything about you or it since I know that you're in the minority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, the argument is that the approval of these gross expansions of government power against our rights and liberties is currently a demonstration of that lack of will; not that it will lead to it.
    No, you argued exactly what I said you argued - that we'll let the government do anything:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And I fear that we've lost our will to fight for it. Rather so long as our tomorrow can be the same as today, we'll allow government to do anything; including its gross expansion and exercised force against us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    My relative safety has not been affected by TSA. My probability of death due to terrorism is no different now than it was before TSA. It's called statistics.
    Unless you have proof that the TSA has not increased the safety of Americans, then your 'statistics' are irrelevant to your absolute, "the TSA is unnecessary". Good luck stating your opinions as facts.

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