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Thread: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

  1. #251
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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Unnecessarily so and recklessly expensive some may argue.
    It's an argument that I disagree with.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    The Fourth Amendment sets the standard for invasive searches of a person's property, papers, or person. The TSA's actions do not meet this standard.
    In your opinion. I disagree. Oh well, but thanks for trying to pretend that your opinion is fact.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    At the cost of personal freedom.
    A stop sign costs a bit of personal freedom as well. I'm unmoved.

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul ‘detained’ by TSA in Nashville, TSA denies

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    No one in this country is above the law. Being a Congress critter doesn't give someone the authority to throw his clout around and exempt himself from a lawful procedure. The guy was a jerk. And continues to be a jerk. I just heard an interview with him on the radio where he said something like this:



    How absolutely ridiculous.
    Do you beleive Wold Blitzer is also a terrorist threat?

    If not then what about the Fourth Amendment?

    Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    How often does the TSA actually ever have "probable cause"?

    What seems to be happening here is not any argument regarding probable cause but only that every American, and visitor, must be humiliated equally by the government. Until Americans rise up, as Rand Paul did in his own meek way, will this intrusion into personal privacy be thrown out and a respect for human dignity be restored.

    All of it should be challenged by a submission to the Supreme Court with special attention being paid to the Fourth Amendment.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    As far as the political correctness in searching, the terrorist want to fit the profile, they are doing these attacks for a reason and they want you to know it was them. How many 80 year old ladies in wheel chairs have been caught in a terrorist attack?
    We can take it a step further and ask how many terrorists were caught by the TSA.

    Those terrorists who have been stopped were done so by private citizens. Yet a government rep will publicly lie that "The system worked".

    Sunday Show Synopsis: "The System Worked" - Marc Ambinder - Business - The Atlantic

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, that was hyperbole of course. Those not dedicated to the never ending fight to keep freedom and liberty should go elsewhere. Not because the US will become elsewhere, but rather just to get rid of them. And of course that can't actually be done. But when enough people seek to give up their rights for safety, they have negatively impacted me.
    Most people in this country are dedicated to keeping freedom. They're just not dedicated to keeping your definition of freedom so your argument that people who don't agree aren't dedicated to freedom is unfounded and quite arrogant.

    I think, in fact, that I have said at least once if not more at this point that US and Cuba are different. Yet the yielding of rights for safety is dangerous and one which has negative impact upon myself. Terrorism will affect us only randomly, government affects us daily.
    You have said they are different, but your argument that people should look at Cuba to see the 'other side' is what I take issue with. As I said, people are quite aware of the other side and many citizens consistently act to ensure that we don't get there. However, because you disagree with their definition of freedom, you assume that they do not know about the 'other side'. That's an unfounded and arrogant claim. You need to accept that other citizens can have broader definitions of freedom than you do and still understand the 'other side'.

    It's actually not a slippery slope argument at all. There is an absolute, those being the rights and liberties of the individual. I do fear that we've lost our will to fight for it. I do think that we've become so complacent with our daily lives that we'll allow government to do anything it wants so long as it does not disrupt the normalcy of our lives. TSA goes too far on a lot of the regulation and searches. That is not a slippery slope and I don't see how one could logically conclude that it was.
    This is a slippery slope argument:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Perchance, but there is still an absolute. And I fear that we've lost our will to fight for it. Rather so long as our tomorrow can be the same as today, we'll allow government to do anything; including its gross expansion and exercised force against us. TSA goes too far on a lot of the regulation and searches.
    You've argued several times now that people's approval of the TSA may/will lead us to let the government do anything. That is the definition of a slippery slope argument.

    Mmmm, yes. But we are talking government force here. You don't get to apply government force and say "prove it wrong", it's in fact the opposite. Until someone proves that 0 record since 9/11 had everything to do with the TSA, I'll remain unconvinced that the expansion of power to the degree it was taken was necessary.
    Mmmm, yes. You stated an opinion as fact when you said, "TSA is unnecessary". How do you know that? You don't. Hence my reply. This is the same trap you always fall into: stating opinions as absolutes and then trying to shift the burden of proof onto those who've made no absolutes.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Are you that dumb?

    The terrrorists aren't that dumb.

    They'll hide a bomb in an old lady's wheelchair, or disguise themselves as an old lady. Duh.

    Profiling is stupid, not PC.
    It's been argued that the TSA is working because there haven't been more hijacked planes. Israel uses profiling and they haven't had hijacked planes.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Cool.
    Public opinion was fully behind racial segregation in the South (better example).
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    When did I say it wasn't causing any problems? Strike one for putting words in my mouth.
    No, but you argued that searching people on the street would cause problems so it's impracticle. The TSA causes problems.

    You asked me how TSA actions would be different from having random searches in the inner city.
    Legally.

    Fine by me. I'm already pretty certain how it will turn out.
    If they are randomly searching people with no reasonable suspicion that the person has done anything wrong, so am I. We have plenty of precedent there.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    No, but you argued that searching people on the street would cause problems so it's impracticle. The TSA causes problems.
    No, I argued that the scale of problems that such searching would make it impractical. Those are two completely different arguments.

    Legally.
    ...yes? Everything I listed would presumably be legal and checkpoints are a part of it, so what's the problem again? How am I supposed to answer your question without stating what I think such searches would entail?

    If they are randomly searching people with no reasonable suspicion that the person has done anything wrong, so am I. We have plenty of precedent there.
    No, random searches are easily defended in court by simply pointing to the fact that profiling people by specific standards of who looks 'suspicious' enables aggressors to defy the standard and work the system. Moreover, random searches are pretty prevalent in the country - in schools, at the border and so on. I don't think that there is much of an argument there.

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