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Thread: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Not going to get you far.
    Perchance not, but it's proper identification.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Searching every '10th person' in the inner city would require the government to establish checkpoints in every single 'inner city' in the country. It would require people to get to the city 5 hours in advance and it would effect considerably more people on a daily basis than any security check in an airport world. It would likely result in a severe decrease in business, destruction of the housing market and many other problematic consequences. The comparison is false.
    It would require nothing. People would just go on their way just like any other day. Officials would simply grab the 10th person they count and search them.

    Here is my prediction. If it's determined that the TSA is searching people just because they were number 23 through the line, the courts are going to rule that un constitutional. If not, they will allow it.

    Also, if it's found out that people are checked not because the detector found something but just because it was programmed to go off every 23rd person there is going to be a TSA official in big trouble for perjury.

    I believe Paul is the person to pursue this.

  3. #233
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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Not so much slippery slope as measured history. We've seen the course of government time and time again; particularly government which grows outside the bounds of the People. There is no history of same sex marriage the likes there is the natural course of government.
    Your argument is that TSA restrictions could lead to a government like Cuba. That could be said for any restriction - including having to pause at a stop sign. The problem is that people can disagree with you about how far restrictions should go without enabling the United States to turn into Cuba. You don't seem to be acknowledging that.

    Perchance, but there is still an absolute. And I fear that we've lost our will to fight for it. Rather so long as our tomorrow can be the same as today, we'll allow government to do anything; including its gross expansion and exercised force against us. TSA goes too far on a lot of the regulation and searches.
    This is definitely a slippery slope argument. Moreover, it's an argument that is not based in a complete observation of how Americans have reaction to perceived infringements on freedom. Like I said, people speak out and act out against perceived infringements on the Bill of Rights all the time. You seem to be ignoring the constant debates around freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, gun rights, privacy and so on that are happening in this country. It just happens that a lot of people think the TSA's reasoning and actions are reasonable, but having different limits than you do on freedom does not mean that people are willing to let government do whatever it wants.

    There was no need for another government agency after 9/11. We had a system already in place and it could have sufficed; TSA was unnecessary.
    TSA might have prevented more attacks from happening. Until someone proves that that '0' record since 9/11 had nothing to do with TSA, I'll remain unconvinced by your absolutes.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Given the low probability of terrorist attack and the aggressiveness of TSA searches; it is not reasonable. Perhaps if terrorist attacks happened once every 9-12 months. But on average its a decade or so.
    Given how preventable a terrorist attack is with adequate searches, I think it's reasonable.

    Is there a reason why in every topic, be it this, religion or something else, you express your opinions as absolutes?

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Given how preventable a terrorist attack is with adequate searches, I think it's reasonable.

    Is there a reason why in every topic, be it this, religion or something else, you express your opinions as absolutes?
    We had adequate searches before the TSA.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    It would require nothing. People would just go on their way just like any other day. Officials would simply grab the 10th person they count and search them.
    Everything I said still applies. People would not go on their way because they would be annoyed and would rather work in other places. Not only that, it would cause racial divides and crap ton of other problems. It would be ridiculous to have checkpoints in every major city and it would have adverse affects on the economy and everything else. It's impractical.

    Here is my prediction. If it's determined that the TSA is searching people just because they were number 23 through the line, the courts are going to rule that un constitutional. If not, they will allow it.
    I don't think it would be ruled unconstitutional in the former case if they were also searching people and bags that seemed 'suspicious' in addition to the 23rd person.

    Also, if it's found out that people are checked not because the detector found something but just because it was programmed to go off every 23rd person there is going to be a TSA official in big trouble for perjury.
    Yep.

    I believe Paul is the person to pursue this.
    Perhaps, but I doubt he'll get far. He would need to sway public opinion.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    We had adequate searches before the TSA.
    And we may have better than adequate now.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Your argument is that TSA restrictions could lead to a government like Cuba.
    No, that was hyperbole of course. Those not dedicated to the never ending fight to keep freedom and liberty should go elsewhere. Not because the US will become elsewhere, but rather just to get rid of them. And of course that can't actually be done. But when enough people seek to give up their rights for safety, they have negatively impacted me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    That could be said for any restriction - including having to pause at a stop sign. The problem is that people can disagree with you about how far restrictions should go without enabling the United States to turn into Cuba. You don't seem to be acknowledging that.
    I think, in fact, that I have said at least once if not more at this point that US and Cuba are different. Yet the yielding of rights for safety is dangerous and one which has negative impact upon myself. Terrorism will affect us only randomly, government affects us daily.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    This is definitely a slippery slope argument. Moreover, it's an argument that is not based in a complete observation of how Americans have reaction to perceived infringements on freedom. Like I said, people speak out and act out against perceived infringements on the Bill of Rights all the time. You seem to be ignoring the constant debates around freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, gun rights, privacy and so on that are happening in this country. It just happens that a lot of people think the TSA's reasoning and actions are reasonable, but having different limits than you do on freedom does not mean that people are willing to let government do whatever it wants.
    It's actually not a slippery slope argument at all. There is an absolute, those being the rights and liberties of the individual. I do fear that we've lost our will to fight for it. I do think that we've become so complacent with our daily lives that we'll allow government to do anything it wants so long as it does not disrupt the normalcy of our lives. TSA goes too far on a lot of the regulation and searches. That is not a slippery slope and I don't see how one could logically conclude that it was.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    TSA might have prevented more attacks from happening. Until someone proves that that '0' record since 9/11 had nothing to do with TSA, I'll remain unconvinced by your absolutes.
    Mmmm, yes. But we are talking government force here. You don't get to apply government force and say "prove it wrong", it's in fact the opposite. Until someone proves that 0 record since 9/11 had everything to do with the TSA, I'll remain unconvinced that the expansion of power to the degree it was taken was necessary.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    And we may have better than adequate now.
    At the cost of personal freedom.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

  10. #240
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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Given how preventable a terrorist attack is with adequate searches, I think it's reasonable.
    Indeed, and before we had adequate searches and extremely low instances of terrorist attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Is there a reason why in every topic, be it this, religion or something else, you express your opinions as absolutes?
    Is there some reason why I cannot state my opinions without you claiming it to be religious, yet you do the same thing and it's ok? You express "reasonable" and an absolute as well. The only difference is that you're arguing the reverse side.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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