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Thread: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    This is the main problem with libertarian arguments. They are built on hyperbolic nonsense. Being patted down is nothing like Cuba and when you make arguments like that, it makes your opinion look retarded because it isn't based in a non-emotional, rational evaluation of reality.

    Please explain how being fine with security checks at an airport means that people are willing to let the country turn into Cuba? So ****ing stupid.
    I would argue it has less to do with the actual pat down, than the reasoning for the pat down. I fly 2 - 3 times a week from Jan - Mar. It isn't a "pat down". It is a solid groping. However, my issue is the violation of the 4th amendment with Sen. Paul just experienced. Actually, they didn't pat him down, so I guess they didn't get to violate an amendment there.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    You'll find similiar arguements from all viewpoints.
    Hyperbole can be used with an viewpoint, but I'm talking specifically about this topic. Almost any topic involving freedom requires nearly every single libertarian (not just 1 or 2, the great majority of them) to start ranting about how our freedoms are stake and how people should go to Cuba or some nonsense. It's stupid.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    This is the main problem with libertarian arguments. They are built on hyperbolic nonsense. Being patted down is nothing like Cuba and when you make arguments like that, it makes your opinion look retarded because it isn't based in a non-emotional, rational evaluation of reality.

    Please explain how being fine with security checks at an airport means that people are willing to let the country turn into Cuba? So ****ing stupid.
    Cuba is the other side of the coin. It's complete government control. Perchance having my 4th amendment rights violated by TSA does not make us that close to Cuba; but it does mark unjust government force. What we had before was reasonable enough, it does not require the level of force and regulation now levied against us. Whatever small increase in security we may have achieved with TSA was not worth the price paid.

    I ask you to go to Cuba to see what the other side is like, see what complete government control will do. For if you do not resist the usurpation of power and the use of force against our rights; we will eventually realize the death of the Republic. Freedom and liberty are what is most important, the very basis of this Republic. I hate to see it thrown away because of emotional and irrational individuals scared that the sky is falling.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I would argue it has less to do with the actual pat down, than the reasoning for the pat down. I fly 2 - 3 times a week from Jan - Mar. It isn't a "pat down". It is a solid groping. However, my issue is the violation of the 4th amendment with Sen. Paul just experienced. Actually, they didn't pat him down, so I guess they didn't get to violate an amendment there.
    I can understand people disagreeing with the government's handling of airport security. It's the hyperbolic nonsense that gets me every time.

    In any case, I just have a fundamentally different viewpoint on this that libertarians. I do not see the TSA's actions as a violation of the 4th amendment because I think that their justification for searches is reasonable.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I can understand people disagreeing with the government's handling of airport security. It's the hyperbolic nonsense that gets me every time.

    In any case, I just have a fundamentally different viewpoint on this that libertarians. I do not see the TSA's actions as a violation of the 4th amendment because I think that their justification for searches is reasonable.
    So a town that had a meth lab in 1982, 1994, and 2001 should conduct searches into everyone's home to make sure they aren't making meth. Would you agree to that if the meth that was made killed 3000 people?
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Hyperbole can be used with an viewpoint, but I'm talking specifically about this topic. Almost any topic involving freedom requires nearly every single libertarian (not just 1 or 2, the great majority of them) to start ranting about how our freedoms are stake and how people should go to Cuba or some nonsense. It's stupid.
    Well, yeah, I do kinda dislike seeing a problem get exaggerated.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    That's what I said. It doesn't necessarily equal causation, but neither you nor I know if in this situation it does.


    I actually don't have specious reasoning because I didn't make a conclusion. I said I'm not sure of correlation equals causation in this case, but it's possible that it does. You seem to think that I've concluded that the TSA is responsible for the 0 terrorist attacks that have happened since 9/11. I'm not sure how you could think that since I specifically said in both of my responses to blue_state that I haven't made that conclusion.

    The problem is that I don't know and neither do you or him know whether or not there is any causation associated with that correlation. It also doesn't make sense to say that the occurrence of a terrorist attack would automatically mean the TSA wasn't successful in other instances.
    Correlation cannot prove causation, which was my point. Maybe TSA had an effect, maybe not. But eventually we will have another terrorist attack That's another point. It's not to say that TSA couldn't be successful, but rather that terrorist attacks will happen eventually. If we freak out each time, we will lose more freedom each time. Instead we may take reasonable actions to protect ourselves from terrorist attack, but we should also understand that they will occur.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I think that their justification for searches is reasonable.
    Search in general can be reasonable, such as the searches we had before. The degree to which we have gone under TSA is unreasonable.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I can understand people disagreeing with the government's handling of airport security. It's the hyperbolic nonsense that gets me every time.

    In any case, I just have a fundamentally different viewpoint on this that libertarians. I do not see the TSA's actions as a violation of the 4th amendment because I think that their justification for searches is reasonable.
    How is it more reasonable than searching every 10th person in the inner city? It's a very reasonable assumption that a good portion of them would get caught with either, drugs or an illegal weapon. (this is, if Paul is right)

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    How is it more reasonable than searching every 10th person in the inner city? It's a very reasonable assumption that a good portion of them would get caught with either, drugs or an illegal weapon. (this is, if Paul is right)
    it's too inefficient. What you need to make is a machine which scans everyone and automatically reports to the authorities if they find anything "suspicious".
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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