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Thread: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Well, no, most people are not going to just "get over" 9/11, thanks.
    So long as others continue to sensationalize it for political and power gain, so long as we keep encouraging ourselves to turn our backs on logic and reason, then yes we won't get over it. As long as people wish to remain emotional and illogical getting over it is tough. Though I do not believe government policy is best set by the irrational.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Sure, but having to stand in line and take off your shoes and maybe get patted down is not the same thing as thousands of people being killed in horrible explosions that cause the nation to go to war, etc. So get over that.
    No, it keeps getting more and more and more. We have rights for a reason, rights limit government force. So get over that.

    Free has never been, is not, and never will be safe. If you don't want to be free, move to Cuba and see what the other side is like. I'd rather live and die free than survive a slave to the state.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Rand Paul detained by TSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    The apple doesn't fall very far from the tree, does it. I guess there are special rules if you are a Senator, at least in his mind. Not, apparenlty, in the minds of the TSA.
    The only thing special is that he practices what he preaches, unlike so many other politicians, aka windsocks.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    You heard it here. With the creation of the TSA, and the stripping of people's rights, we will never be attacked again.
    When did we hear that? Either I missed that post or you distorted my words in order to avoid dealing with what I actually said.

    If you believe we can be attacked again through our airports, then the TSA is a farce and we went the wrong way with a knee jerk reaction.
    I believe we can be attacked again. However, I don't see how that possibility makes the TSA a farce. I believe that someone might get robbed again, but that doesn't mean I think the police force is a farce.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    When did we hear that? Either I missed that post or you distorted my words in order to avoid dealing with what I actually said.


    I believe we can be attacked again. However, I don't see how that possibility makes the TSA a farce. I believe that someone might get robbed again, but that doesn't mean I think the police force is a farce.
    Really, that wasn't a distortion of the TSA is perfect. Your words, not mine.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Sure, we were doing 'fine' before them. But your list shows that we were doing perfect after them. I prefer perfect.

    As I said, however, I'm not sure if correlation equals causation, but it's entirely possible that it does. In any case, I don't think being patted down in case I have a bomb is a violation of my rights since I think such a search is reasonable.
    Correlation does not equal causation, in fact what you have here is specious reasoning. I have a rock that prevents terrorism on planes, found it after 9/11. Don't see any terrorist attacks on airports around. The fact of the matter is that so long as there are pissed off people out there with little to no political power, there will be terrorism. Some will be directed at us, particularly given our interventionist, military actions. Given enough time, we will see another terrorist attack; terrorist attacks are probabilities and given time all probabilities are realized.
    Last edited by Ikari; 01-25-12 at 02:42 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So long as others continue to sensationalize it for political and power gain, so long as we keep encouraging ourselves to turn our backs on logic and reason, then yes we won't get over it. As long as people wish to remain emotional and illogical getting over it is tough. Though I do not believe government policy is best set by the irrational.
    I don't think it's irrational. Preventing large-scale terrorist attacks on our vital buildings is a vital national security interest. They hit the Pentagon and likely were after the White House or Capitol too. They hit the heart of our financial district.

    No, it keeps getting more and more and more. We have rights for a reason, rights limit government force. So get over that.
    I agree completely. I'm just saying that "get over it" is not a rational argument for how much is too much.

    Free has never been, is not, and never will be safe. If you don't want to be free, move to Cuba and see what the other side is like. I'd rather live and die free than survive a slave to the state.[/QUOTE]
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Free has never been, is not, and never will be safe. If you don't want to be free, move to Cuba and see what the other side is like. I'd rather live and die free than survive a slave to the state.
    This is the main problem with libertarian arguments. They are built on hyperbolic nonsense. Being patted down is nothing like Cuba and when you make arguments like that, it makes your opinion look retarded because it isn't based in a non-emotional, rational evaluation of reality.

    Please explain how being fine with security checks at an airport means that people are willing to let the country turn into Cuba? So ****ing stupid.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    I don't think it's irrational. Preventing large-scale terrorist attacks on our vital buildings is a vital national security interest. They hit the Pentagon and likely were after the White House or Capitol too. They hit the heart of our financial district.
    They beauty of America is that our politicians are no one special. All can be replaced. There are reasonable actions to take that are within the confines of the Constitution, the flood gates need not be opened. Yet we must temper action with freedom, and this is where we are failing. Mostly due to the fear mongering of terrorism, it's not just related to TSA alone; though TSA is part of the system. It's power grabs by government which erode that which our forefathers fought for. TSA and HLS were not necessary; we already had structures in place. The Patriot Act was not necessary and has only led to abuse. Yet with things such as the TSA, I fear that Americans have become too much like cattle and now it is the government which terrorizes us. Obey the TSA or face its wrath. You may not just be escorted off the property, there's all sorts of nasty little things that can happen to you should you dare raise your voice.

    So who are the real terrorists? Or rather, can government itself engage in terrorism against its people? Clearly yes, and clearly it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    I agree completely. I'm just saying that "get over it" is not a rational argument for how much is too much.
    Just government force abides by and protects the rights and liberties of the individual. If the rights of an individual are unduly violated through law, the law is unjust and must be done away with.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Correlation does not equal causation,
    That's what I said. It doesn't necessarily equal causation, but neither you nor I know if in this situation it does.

    in fact what you have here is specious reasoning. I have a rock that prevents terrorism on planes, found it after 9/11. Don't see any terrorist attacks on airports around. The fact of the matter is that so long as there are pissed off people out there with little to no political power, there will be terrorism. Some will be directed at us, particularly given our interventionist, military actions. Given enough time, we will see another terrorist attack; terrorist attacks are probabilities and given time all probabilities are realized.
    I actually don't have specious reasoning because I didn't make a conclusion. I said I'm not sure of correlation equals causation in this case, but it's possible that it does. You seem to think that I've concluded that the TSA is responsible for the 0 terrorist attacks that have happened since 9/11. I'm not sure how you could think that since I specifically said in both of my responses to blue_state that I haven't made that conclusion.

    The problem is that I don't know and neither do you or him know whether or not there is any causation associated with that correlation. It also doesn't make sense to say that the occurrence of a terrorist attack would automatically mean the TSA wasn't successful in other instances.

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    Re: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    This is the main problem with libertarian arguments.
    You'll find similiar arguements from all viewpoints.

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