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Thread: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul (R) Detained by TSA.

  1. #111
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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul ‘detained’ by TSA in Nashville, TSA denies

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Wow, this was a great time to make a point about how either the TSA was going overboard, or how even Senators have to be treated like everyone else.

    Instead, you find a point about how Senators get special privileges.
    In this case, yes, they get a special privilege. The Constitution specifically grants them this privilege, because without it, lower legal processes could be used in a targeted manner against legislators deemed likely to vote in a particular manner, in order to hinder them from voting, in order to corrupt the legislative process. In fact, I think that this incident demonstrates exactly how this abuse could occur, and why the Constitution has a provision specifically to prevent it.
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    Re: Rand Paul detained by TSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    The point is that the TSA willfully, deliberately interfered with his attempt to return to Washington to perform his duties as a Senator. There is nothing whatsoever in this situation that gives the TSA the authority to violate Article I Section 6 of the Constitution, which very clearly prohibits any such interference with the travel of elected representatives to and from the capital in the performance of their duties. There is no evidence that this Senator was in any way guilty of any felony, treason, or breach of peace; therefore he had an absolute right, under this provision of the Constitution, to travel unmolested to the capitol to perform his duties. The TSA violated this. The agents responsible need to be arrested and thrown in prison.
    Then the argument becomes completely different to the one Rand Paul is making. He's making an issue of random pat-downs, using an example of a young girl who most people would agree is an abuse of TSA powers but it isn't really comparable to what he was subjected to.

    Context then becomes important after we move the goalposts. Did the TSA know he was a senator? Did he make that clear? If senators are protected from detention on the way to the Capitol, why don't they just bypass all scanners and security checks? What's the point of them if they can't be detained?

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    Re: Rand Paul detained by TSA

    Thats kind of his point. The acts empowering the TSA contravene the constitution in more than just this one area regarding traveling representatives. Paul would like to change that.

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul ‘detained’ by TSA in Nashville, TSA denies

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Nope. But I was surprised that Congressmen have to go through TSA. I thought they all had ways around that. I wonder if Pelosi and such need to go through TSA.

    It's not so much that I think that Congressmen should be above the law, but rather that the law in this case is wrong.
    Judicial Watch Uncovers Documents Detailing Pelosi’s Repeated Requests for Military Travel | Judicial Watch

    I dunno if she is subject to the same type of screening though. From my understanding, our reps usually take regular planes to DC so they go through the same procedure as us.

    It took them a hour and a half till they put Rand Paul back into the scanner and his right leg came up clear. Time wasted imo.
    Last edited by jasonxe; 01-24-12 at 06:19 AM.



  5. #115
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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul ‘detained’ by TSA in Nashville, TSA denies

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Nope. But I was surprised that Congressmen have to go through TSA. I thought they all had ways around that. I wonder if Pelosi and such need to go through TSA.

    It's not so much that I think that Congressmen should be above the law, but rather that the law in this case is wrong.

    Well, in this case, it's both.

    The “law” is indeed wrong. The Constitution sets very strict limits to the circumstances under which government agents are allowed to perform any kind of invasive search of individuals or their property. The current TSA procedures are not in any way consistent with these standards. Every invasive search performed on every airline passenger for whom no specific evidence exists to connect that passenger to any suspected terrorist activity or other criminal activity, is in violation of the Constitution.

    But there is, in fact, a very good reason why, even if the TSAs activities were legal, elected representatives should not be subject to them.

    Suppose that the Senate, in the very session that Senator Paul was trying to return to Washington in order to attend, was going to be working on a bill to curtail the unconstitutional activities of the TSA. His positions on this subject are well known. The TSA would have a very clear motive in trying to prevent Senator Paul, and others of similar view, from attending that session. If they can, by force or intimidation, hinder such senators from traveling to D.C. to participate in that session, then they can corrupt the process by which the bill affecting them would be written and voted on. Perhaps even the thread of such hindrance could be used to intimidate representatives into voting in favor of the TSA.

    If the TSA is allowed to freely do what it has openly done, in this instance, to Senator Paul, then this gives them substantial power to corrupt the legislative process in their favor.

    Any power to hinder the travel of elected representatives,or in any way interfere with their ability to perform their duties, can be used in a targeted manner against representatives that are deemed likely to vote in a manner unfavorable to the interests of the one wielding that power.

    It is for very good reason that Article I Section 6 of the Constitution clearly prohibits this sort of interference with the travels of an elected representative to and from the capital.
    Last edited by Bob Blaylock; 01-24-12 at 06:20 AM. Reason: A man without a forklift is nothing. May the Forks be with you.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
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    Re: Rand Paul detained by TSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The last thing an airline wants is a private employee killing a passenger.
    I don't think that would be the last thing. Somewhere well before that would be one passenger killing a whole bunch of other passengers, and destroying one of the Airline's aircraft, along with other property on the ground for which the airline would be held liable.

    Give the performance and behavior of the TSA, I would very gladly much rather trust the airlines themselves than the government in this regard.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: Rand Paul detained by TSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    The point is that the TSA willfully, deliberately interfered with his attempt to return to Washington to perform his duties as a Senator. There is nothing whatsoever in this situation that gives the TSA the authority to violate Article I Section 6 of the Constitution, which very clearly prohibits any such interference with the travel of elected representatives to and from the capital in the performance of their duties. There is no evidence that this Senator was in any way guilty of any felony, treason, or breach of peace; therefore he had an absolute right, under this provision of the Constitution, to travel unmolested to the capitol to perform his duties. The TSA violated this. The agents responsible need to be arrested and thrown in prison.
    Then the argument becomes completely different to the one Rand Paul is making. He's making an issue of random pat-downs, using an example of a young girl who most people would agree is an abuse of TSA powers but it isn't really comparable to what he was subjected to.
    I would guess that he figures that the argument about how the conduct of the TSA is affecting ordinary citizens would have more traction than any argument he might make about special privileges that he, as a Senator is due, beyond those of ordinary citizens.

    He would be equally right to make either argument, but I think the former is likely to be more persuasive, especially given that that's a side he's been taking since well before this incident.

    As a senator, he should not be subject to the abuses that the TSA has been perpetrating, but then neither should any other citizen be subject to these abuses.
    Last edited by Bob Blaylock; 01-24-12 at 06:33 AM. Reason: A man without a forklift is nothing. May the Forks be with you.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  8. #118
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    Re: Rand Paul detained by TSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You want to privatize the Federal Air Marshals / Sky Marshals? You want a private police force?
    she asked what Rand Pauls' position was - as I understand it, that is it. I think that Sky Marshals would be an excellent security measure, as would profiling, as the Israelis do.

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    Re: Rand Paul detained by TSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    I would guess that he figures that the argument about how the conduct of the TSA is affecting ordinary citizens would have more traction than any argument he might make about special privileges that he, as a Senator is due, beyond those of ordinary citizens.

    He would be equally right to make either argument, but I think the former is likely to be more persuasive, especially given that that's a side he's been taking since well before this incident.

    As a senator, he should not be subject to the abuses that the TSA has been perpetrating, but then neither should any other citizen be subject to these abuses.
    Yeah, I'd have to agree with that. I accept that him playing the senator card wouldn't have gone down well with Joe Public. I think the issue that affected him could be sorted out by senators carrying an ID badge allowing them to bypass security checks on flights into DC. What happened to him doesn't necessarily associate with other issues regarding the TSA however.

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    Re: Rand Paul detained by TSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Then the argument becomes completely different to the one Rand Paul is making. He's making an issue of random pat-downs, using an example of a young girl who most people would agree is an abuse of TSA powers but it isn't really comparable to what he was subjected to.
    How is it different? There was absolutely no chance he was carrying a bomb or weapon.

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