• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

South Carolina's Attorney General detects voter fraud during primaries

tomfoo13ry said:
"Not common enough to actually effect an election." Really? That makes me wonder why in 2006 the election for the state senator from my district was voided because dead people were casting votes. The "winning" candidate "won" by 13 votes. Perhaps your statement isn't entirely accurate?

Electoral fraud is real, it happens, and has the potential to affect the outcome of elections. Honest people everywhere should demand that elections are kept on the up and up instead of making weak excuses.
Click to expand...

I agree wholeheartely that any voter fraud found should be punished by the full extent of the law and, IMO, that person should have to forfeit their right to ever vote again.

In person voter fraud is so rare that the limited benefits of a photo ID law does not justify the risk of denying ones right to cast a ballot.


As for the big push for voter ID (as well as other recent conservatives 'reforms') here's an excerpt from The Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law paper on voter fraud may give a clue...
Royal Masset, the former political director for the Republican Party of Texas, concisely tied all of these strands together in a 2007 Houston Chronicle article concerning a highly controversial battle over photo identification legislation in Texas. Masset connected the inflated furor over voter fraud to photo identification laws and their expected impact on legitimate voters:

Among Republicans it is an “article of religious faith that voter fraud is causing us to lose elections,” Masset said. He doesn’t agree with that, but does believe that requiring photo IDs could cause enough of a dropoff in legitimate Democratic voting to add 3 percent to the Republican vote.



http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/pdf/TruthAboutVoterFraud.pdf
Click to expand...
 
tomfoo13ry said:
"Not common enough to actually effect an election." Really? That makes me wonder why in 2006 the election for the state senator from my district was voided because dead people were casting votes. The "winning" candidate "won" by 13 votes. Perhaps your statement isn't entirely accurate?

Electoral fraud is real, it happens, and has the potential to affect the outcome of elections. Honest people everywhere should demand that elections are kept on the up and up instead of making weak excuses.
Click to expand...

And honest people should be outraged when average Americans registrations are cancelled and they are disallowed from voting either due to error or to over-aggressive attorneys general with agendas.

This is far more common than dead people voting, WHICH, as I've said three times, but you all ignore, is frequently found to be poll worker error and nothing more.
 
from the Brennan report

Among Republicans it is an “article of religious faith that voter fraud is causing us to lose elections,” Masset said. He doesn’t agree with that, but does believe that requiring photo IDs could cause enough of a dropoff in legitimate Democratic voting to add 3 percent to the Republican vote.
Click to expand...

At its core, every complicated idea is about one pretty simple thing and we have found what lies at the center of this ginned up controversy.
 
FilmFestGuy said:
And honest people should be outraged when average Americans registrations are cancelled and they are disallowed from voting either due to error or to over-aggressive attorneys general with agendas.
Click to expand...
I agree with that.

FilmFestGuy said:
This is far more common than dead people voting, WHICH, as I've said three times, but you all ignore, is frequently found to be poll worker error and nothing more.
Click to expand...
Can a person only be outraged over one or the other? Is it an either/or proposition? If not, then what is your point? As for you saying something three times: Who cares? Someone made an erroneous statement that fraud due to dead people voting was "not common enough to actually effect an election" yet I have an example, from my very district, of dead people voting that DID affect an election and led to 30+ indictments. The fact that you dismiss a very real problem out of hand as "poll worker error and nothing more" is just another weak excuse, like I mentioned earlier.
 
tomfoo13ry said:
Someone made an erroneous statement that fraud due to dead people voting was "not common enough to actually effect an election" yet I have an example, from my very district, of dead people voting that DID affect an election and led to 30+ indictments.
Click to expand...

You've given anecdotal evidence, with no 'facts' to back up your example.

I won't even ask you for links to the evidence, but if you'll provide the who, what, where and when, I'll do the research myself.
 
BWG said:
You've given anecdotal evidence,
Click to expand...
Yes, I gave one example, which is all that is needed to destroy an absolute statement like the one to which I originally responded.

BWG said:
with no 'facts' to back up your example.

I won't even ask you for links to the evidence, but if you'll provide the who, what, where and when, I'll do the research myself.
Click to expand...
Ophelia Ford, Memphis, TN District 29. The TN Senate voided the election after an investigation found that dead people were casting votes in an election that was decided by a mere 13 votes. Indictments and convictions followed. Now, do your bit of research and tell me that I'm wrong.
 
Last edited:
tomfoo13ry said:
Ophelia Ford, Memphis, TN District 29. The TN Senate voided the election after an investigation found that dead people were casting votes in an election that was decided by a mere 13 votes. Indictments and convictions followed. Now, do your bit of research and tell me that I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's a real case. The fraud was committed by poll workers. A photo ID law would not have prevented it, but it would have prevented a significant number of legitimate voters from casting their ballots.
 
AdamT said:
Yes, that's a real case. The fraud was committed by poll workers. A photo ID law would not have prevented it, but it would have prevented a significant number of legitimate voters from casting their ballots.
Click to expand...

I wonder how these people who would be prevented from casting their ballots are getting to the polls....? Oh, wait. They're driving.
 
MaggieD said:
I wonder how these people who would be prevented from casting their ballots are getting to the polls....? Oh, wait. They're driving.
Click to expand...

Are you just being sarcastic, or do you actually believe that making it more difficult to vote doesn't reduce voter participation?
 
AdamT said:
Are you just being sarcastic, or do you actually believe that making it more difficult to vote doesn't reduce voter participation?
Click to expand...

I'm not being sarcastic. I don't care if it reduces voter participation. I person should have to identify themselves satisfactorily in order to vote. Period.
 
American said:
Bull****!!!!!!!!!!! I've been told by Democrats that this never happens.
Click to expand...

And I'm sure you'll run away from backing up your moronic claim instead of showing us which Dems have said this NEVER happens.
 
MaggieD said:
I'm not being sarcastic. I don't care if it reduces voter participation. I person should have to identify themselves satisfactorily in order to vote. Period.
Click to expand...

If the voters cards are issued free and there are programs that would help elderly people obtain one who might not have their Birth certificates, then sure I'm for it.
 
AdamT said:
Yes, that's a real case. The fraud was committed by poll workers. A photo ID law would not have prevented it, but it would have prevented a significant number of legitimate voters from casting their ballots.
Click to expand...

Okay. I never once mentioned anything about photo IDs...but okay.
 
tomfoo13ry said:
Yes, I gave one example, which is all that is needed to destroy an absolute statement like the one to which I originally responded.
Click to expand...
When you throw out a generic statement like this...
tomfoo13ry said:
That makes me wonder why in 2006 the election for the state senator from my district was voided because dead people were casting votes.
Click to expand...
...don't be surprised that it may be challenged.

tomfoo13ry said:
Ophelia Ford, Memphis, TN District 29. The TN Senate voided the election after an investigation found that dead people were casting votes in an election that was decided by a mere 13 votes. Indictments and convictions followed. Now, do your bit of research and tell me that I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
As AdamT has already stated that was fraud committed by poll workers. Voter ID nor any of the other 'reforms' Republicans have passed or proposed would have prevented this.

Information on this incident is sketchy, because the authorities won't release all the details, but the 3 poll workers made a plea deal in which they faked 3 votes, 2 cast in the names of the dead.

For the record, I think they got off too lightly. IMO they should have had to serve time, fined more heavily and had their voter right permanently revoked.
 
BWG said:
When you throw out a generic statement like this...

...don't be surprised that it may be challenged.
Click to expand...
I wasn't surprised in the least. I threw it out there knowing that someone would try and call me on it since there seems to be a prevailing attitude that election fraud doesn't happen. That way people have no choice but to take note instead of simply ignoring the relevant facts. I mean, just look at the way you tried calling me on it. You seemed quite sure that I was full of BS and you were ready to pounce, now you know different.


BWG said:
As AdamT has already stated that was fraud committed by poll workers. Voter ID nor any of the other 'reforms' Republicans have passed or proposed would have prevented this.

Information on this incident is sketchy, because the authorities won't release all the details, but the 3 poll workers made a plea deal in which they faked 3 votes, 2 cast in the names of the dead.

For the record, I think they got off too lightly. IMO they should have had to serve time, fined more heavily and had their voter right permanently revoked.
Click to expand...
And as I responded to AdamT, I never once mentioned anything about voter IDs. Is there a prize on this forum for whoever can throw out the most strawmen?
 
OH MY GOD, Voter fraud in a GOP caucus who'd a thought this could ever happen.

Now I know the end of the World is nigh in this year of our Lord (Obama) 2012!
 
tomfoo13ry said:
Yes, I gave one example, which is all that is needed to destroy an absolute statement like the one to which I originally responded.


Ophelia Ford, Memphis, TN District 29. The TN Senate voided the election after an investigation found that dead people were casting votes in an election that was decided by a mere 13 votes. Indictments and convictions followed. Now, do your bit of research and tell me that I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

AdamT said:
Yes, that's a real case. The fraud was committed by poll workers. A photo ID law would not have prevented it, but it would have prevented a significant number of legitimate voters from casting their ballots.
Click to expand...

IOW, it was NOT "voter fraud"; It was ELECTORAL FRAUD
 
tomfoo13ry said:
I wasn't surprised in the least. I threw it out there knowing that someone would try and call me on it since there seems to be a prevailing attitude that election fraud doesn't happen.
Click to expand...
Speaking of strawman...no one is claiming that election fraud doesn't happen.
tomfoo13ry said:
I mean, just look at the way you tried calling me on it. You seemed quite sure that I was full of BS and you were ready to pounce, now you know different.
Click to expand...
I wasn't calling you on it or sure you were full of BS or ready to pounce. You make the claim, be prepared to back it up. I prefer to read the facts rather than rely on an anonymous poster's generic claim of fraud in light of so many claims of fraud that turn out to be nothing of the sort. In fact the headline of the article said "South Carolina's Attorney General detects voter fraud", then the first line says "potential". So it's perfectly reasonable for one to be skeptical.

tomfoo13ry said:
And as I responded to AdamT, I never once mentioned anything about voter IDs. Is there a prize on this forum for whoever can throw out the most strawmen?
Click to expand...
Yet another stawman. I never said that YOU mentioned voter ID. If you read the article in the OP, it said "The analysis came out of research for the state's new voter identification law," so naturally, discussion of voter ID and pointing out that your example would not have been prevented by voter ID law would be on topic.
 
MaggieD said:
I'm not being sarcastic. I don't care if it reduces voter participation. I person should have to identify themselves satisfactorily in order to vote. Period.
Click to expand...

That helps explain your position.
 
sangha said:
IOW, it was NOT "voter fraud"; It was ELECTORAL FRAUD
Click to expand...

If you look at my very first post in this thread you'll see that I referred to it as ELECTORAL FRAUD...so what is your point?
 
BWG said:
Speaking of strawman...no one is claiming that election fraud doesn't happen.
Click to expand...
That was a bit of hyperbole on my part. The original statement that I responded to asserted that electoral fraud doesn't effect elections and implied that it isn't a problem. I disagree.

BWG said:
I wasn't calling you on it or sure you were full of BS or ready to pounce. You make the claim, be prepared to back it up. I prefer to read the facts rather than rely on an anonymous poster's generic claim of fraud in light of so many claims of fraud that turn out to be nothing of the sort. In fact the headline of the article said "South Carolina's Attorney General detects voter fraud", then the first line says "potential". So it's perfectly reasonable for one to be skeptical.
Click to expand...
Maybe I was mistaken in that claim about you being ready to pounce but I don't think so. If you thought that even one election had been effected by fraud then there would be no point in asking for me to back up my statement because it would be a moot point.


BWG said:
Yet another stawman. I never said that YOU mentioned voter ID. If you read the article in the OP, it said "The analysis came out of research for the state's new voter identification law," so naturally, discussion of voter ID and pointing out that your example would not have been prevented by voter ID law would be on topic.
Click to expand...
My point that you pounced on had nothing to do with voter ID so, yes, it was a strawman on your part. My comment was in direct response to ONE statement made by another poster and then you and a couple of other posters decided to read a whole lot more into it.
 
tomfoo13ry said:
Yes, I gave one example, which is all that is needed to destroy an absolute statement like the one to which I originally responded.


Ophelia Ford, Memphis, TN District 29. The TN Senate voided the election after an investigation found that dead people were casting votes in an election that was decided by a mere 13 votes. Indictments and convictions followed. Now, do your bit of research and tell me that I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

And thank you - I did my research - and the fraud came from POLL WORKERS - not illegal voters.

That is my point. Voter ID wouldn't have stopped poll workers from creating fraudulent votes.
 
FilmFestGuy said:
And thank you - I did my research - and the fraud came from POLL WORKERS - not illegal voters.

That is my point. Voter ID wouldn't have stopped poll workers from creating fraudulent votes.
Click to expand...


How disappointing this will be for those that hoped it would be a good excuse to disenfranchise poor voters!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom