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Thread: US Attorney in Arizona pleads 5th in Furious testimony

  1. #21
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    Re: US Attorney in Arizona pleads 5th in Furious testimony

    Holder has lied or is not capable of remembering. Either way he should go.

    WASHINGTON - New documents obtained by CBS News show Attorney General Eric Holder was sent briefings on the controversial Fast and Furious operation as far back as July 2010. That directly contradicts his statement to Congress. On May 3, 2011, Holder told a Judiciary Committee hearing, "I'm not sure of the exact date, but I probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks."
    Yet internal Justice Department documents show that at least ten months before that hearing, Holder began receiving frequent memos discussing Fast and Furious
    .
    ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010 - CBS News Investigates - CBS News
    Last edited by mike2810; 01-21-12 at 06:07 PM.
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    Re: US Attorney in Arizona pleads 5th in Furious testimony

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    Not surprising in taking the 5th. I am not happy with the decision, but it fits a pattern.

    The DOJ after an investigation says MCSO (Sheriff Arpaio) racial profiled and discriminated against Latinos. MCSO asked to see the evidence, DOJ says nope, you just have to believe our report and by asking MCSO is stonewalling. If MCSO doesnt bend to DOJ will, then DOJ will take MCSO to court. Seems providing the evidence would assist MCSO in developing better training and guidance for LE Officers if needed.

    So take the 5th, Don't provide evidence. Just got to love the way Holder is running DOJ.
    Since you've provided no link for your claims, I will assume that you are working on a novel.

    For those interested in facts, rather than fiction, I submit this:

    Arpaio’s team has asked DOJ to present all of its evidence in the name of transparency, though most of the evidence was the very same material and interviews that MCSO provided.

    [Assistant Attorney General Thomas] Perez wrote that Arpaio’s team had tried to set “unworkable preconditions” on their cooperation, “including a prodigious discovery request containing 106 different demands for information such as the identity of victims of MCSO’s retaliatory actions and the identity of MCSO officials who made comments critical of the agency.

    [...] Still, DOJ is willing to meet with MCSO to discuss the letter of findings and talk about potential solutions [...]

    DOJ: Arpaio’s Actions Suggest He’s Trying To Delay Discrimination Case | TPMMuckraker

  3. #23
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    Re: US Attorney in Arizona pleads 5th in Furious testimony

    Karl, give me a fxxking break.
    I will provide a link, but it is clear you do not follow news.

    Also noticed you did not have a comeback for the link I did provide on the "topic" being discussed that Holder was briefed 10 months before his presentation before Congress.
    Care to prove that fact wrong?
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    Re: US Attorney in Arizona pleads 5th in Furious testimony

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    Karl, give me a fxxking break. I will provide a link, but it is clear you do not follow news.
    Correction: I do not let 'news', or my ideology, do my thinking for me. Try it some time....

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    Also noticed you did not have a comeback for the link I did provide on the "topic" being discussed that Holder was briefed 10 months before his presentation before Congress. Care to prove that fact wrong?
    Your "fact" is not proof of a lie, so in fact your post proved my point. Thank you for posting it

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    Re: US Attorney in Arizona pleads 5th in Furious testimony

    Karl

    In the cover letter, Arpaio attorney Joseph J. Popolizio made it clear that the sheriff was willing to cooperate with Holder and the DOJ, but only if the DOJ revealed to the MCSO and the public its proof.

    “Sheriff Joseph M. Arpaio and the MCSO are certainly interested in constructive dialogue, but constructive dialogue can only occur if the DOJ provides the facts and information on which it bases its findings,” Popolizio wrote.Sheriff Joe to Eric Holder:


    Headed to court? MCSO and DOJ at odds | KJZZ.org

    Now please provide links to anything you state, since that seems to be your debate style.
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    Re: US Attorney in Arizona pleads 5th in Furious testimony

    OK Karl
    Lets say your right and Holder has not lied and he just doesn't remember the memos from 10 months ago.
    Holder is nevertheless incompetent for his failure to oversee such a sensitive operation as selling guns to violent drug cartels.

    Care to show us why he should not be considered incompetent?
    Last edited by mike2810; 01-21-12 at 06:40 PM.
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  7. #27
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    Re: US Attorney in Arizona pleads 5th in Furious testimony

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    Karl

    In the cover letter, Arpaio attorney Joseph J. Popolizio made it clear that the sheriff was willing to cooperate with Holder and the DOJ, but only if the DOJ revealed to the MCSO and the public its proof.

    “Sheriff Joseph M. Arpaio and the MCSO are certainly interested in constructive dialogue, but constructive dialogue can only occur if the DOJ provides the facts and information on which it bases its findings,” Popolizio wrote.Sheriff Joe to Eric Holder:

    Headed to court? MCSO and DOJ at odds | KJZZ.org

    Now please provide links to anything you state, since that seems to be your debate style.
    I provided my link in my post #22, which definitively contradicts your conclusion in your post #18.

    Based upon the links now available in this thread, it appears that Arpaio is more interested in disputing the DOJ claims than cooperating. While Arpaio's attorneys claim he is willing to cooperate, asking the the name of an MCSO deputy that has criticized the MCSO seems to be a rather odd request if cooperation is the goal (see Exhibit 2, Item 106, linked at your KJZZ link).

    If Arpaio desires to litigate in order to obtain a public airing of all the details, I'm sure the DOJ will be happy to accommodate him. Ain't democracy grand?
    Last edited by Karl; 01-21-12 at 06:45 PM.

  8. #28
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    Re: US Attorney in Arizona pleads 5th in Furious testimony

    Based upon the links now available in this thread, it appears that Arpaio is more interested in disputing the DOJ claims than cooperating. While Arpaio's attorneys claim he is willing to cooperate, asking the the name of an MCSO deputy that has criticized the MCSO seems to be a rather odd request if cooperation is the goal (see Exhibit 2, Item 106, linked at your KJZZ link).

    If Arpaio desires to litigate in order to obtain a public airing of all the details, I'm sure the DOJ will be happy to accommodate him. Ain't democracy grand?

    Except the DOJ would have to provide transparency immediately in the discovery phase before any proceedings can take place. Before they can declare anyone guilty, they need to reveal evidence collected and DOJ is refusing to do so. Arpaio has the right to face his accuser. Democracy is grand but a republic is even better. Republics have law, democracies have mob rule.

  9. #29
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    Re: US Attorney in Arizona pleads 5th in Furious testimony

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    OK Karl
    Lets say your right and Holder has not lied and he just doesn't remember the memos from 10 months ago.
    Holder is nevertheless incompetent for his failure to oversee such a sensitive operation as selling guns to violent drug cartels.

    Care to show us why he should not be considered incompetent?
    No, since it is merely your opinion... one that I don't think a informed, rational person would adopt. I therefore have little or no interest in it.

    I would ask, however, if you're aware that the 'gun running' sting has been in operation since about 2005?

    The ATF gunwalking scandal came to national attention in the United States in 2011 after the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) ran a series of “gunwalking” sting operations[2][3] between 2006[4] and 2011[5][2] under the umbrella of Project Gunrunner, a project intended to stem the flow of firearms into Mexico by interdicting straw purchasers and gun traffickers within the U.S.[6]

    ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The ATF began Project Gunrunner as a pilot project in Laredo, Texas, in 2005 and expanded it as a national initiative in 2006. Project Gunrunner is also part of the Department of Justice’s broader Southwest Border Initiative, which seeks to reduce cross-border drug and firearms trafficking and the high level of violence associated with these activities on both sides of the border.[4]

    ATF has determined that the Mexican cartels have become the leading gun trafficking organizations operating in the southwest U.S. and is working in collaboration with other agencies and the Government of Mexico to expand the eTrace firearm tracing software system.[5] eTrace provides web based access to ATF’s Firearms Tracing System to allow law enforcement both domestically and internationally the ability to trace firearms encountered in connection with a criminal investigation to the first recorded purchaser[6][7][8] - who may have innocently sold the gun years ago. eTrace allows law enforcement to access their trace results directly (name and address of first purchaser) and offers the ability to generate statistical reports to analyze their trace data to estimate firearms trafficking trends or patterns.

    ATF announced a goal to deploy eTrace software to all thirty-one states within the Republic of Mexico. As part of eTrace expansion, ATF continues to provide training to Mexican and Central American countries to ensure that the technology is utilized to a greater extent.[5] Colombia and Mexico were provided with their own in-country tracing centers with full access to ATF firearm registration records.

    Project Gunrunner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    What do you think the odds are of getting that info from Fox News?

  10. #30
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    Re: US Attorney in Arizona pleads 5th in Furious testimony

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Except the DOJ would have to provide transparency immediately in the discovery phase before any proceedings can take place. Before they can declare anyone guilty, they need to reveal evidence collected and DOJ is refusing to do so. Arpaio has the right to face his accuser. Democracy is grand but a republic is even better. Republics have law, democracies have mob rule.
    Guilt or innocence is not a factor at this stage. They want him to change his policies/procedures. If he refuses, then he will be sued and guilt/innocence will come into play -- and his right to view all the evidence will be granted.

    He can face his accuser when and if he is charged with a crime.

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