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Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

Blue_State said:
I am not sure that it makes me a religious bigot that I think the parents should have the overall authority on whether or not religious materials are available at the school of their children.
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They really do not have the authority to determine that only things they agree with are available. They do have a right to determine whether or not their kid is subjected to it.
 
Jerry said:
Her intial complaint was not that the school was discriminating against her religion. Her initial complaint was that the school was offering bibles. After she made her initial complaint, the school stopped offering any religious material. After the school stopped offering religious material, the woman showed up to offer pagan books and was turned away. She was turned away because the school was investigating her initial complaint, and was not offering any religious material during the investigation. The school was not offering bibles when the woman wanted to offer witchcraft books. The woman then turns to the media and claims discrimination. There is no evidence that the school refused wiccan books while it offered bibles. All of this fuss is only because she was pissed that her son came home with a bible. She is intorrent and is taking it out on the biggest bank account she can find.
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Actually, it isn't clear why the school would not allow the woman to distribute the wiccan information.

It says that she tried to distribute it after she was assured by the school official that all donations of religious material of any kind would be allowed to be distributed, but then she was denied. It then says that they are looking into the practice and not accepting religious material donations at all. It does not say whether it was done as a result of her initial complaint or as a result of her not being able to distribute the Wiccan information.
 
1Perry said:
They really do not have the authority to determine that only things they agree with are available. They do have a right to determine whether or not their kid is subjected to it.
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I didn't think I was making an arguement for the availability or non-availability of religious materials. Throughout this thread, I have argued that the parents should have control on what happens at their local school. The group of parents, not just one individual. They can determine if religious material should be available. If they determine it should be, then all denominations, without exception should be given the same opportunities. I am arguing that the parents (group) should know what the school is providing.
 
Blue_State said:
I didn't think I was making an arguement for the availability or non-availability of religious materials. Throughout this thread, I have argued that the parents should have control on what happens at their local school. The group of parents, not just one individual. They can determine if religious material should be available. If they determine it should be, then all denominations, without exception should be given the same opportunities. I am arguing that the parents (group) should know what the school is providing.
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O.K. thanks. Parents should know, I agree.
 
It shouldn't matter if all are treated the same. Either all religions are welcome to pass out religious books or none. To be fair, you have to establish rules as to what constitutes religious material and how often it may be handed out. I would think the smartest way to handle it is to say no religious material may be handed out. Problem solved. It is ultimately a school board issue and one - I promise you - they'd rather not handle in North Carolina or anywhere in the bible belt.

In the South probably the best way to be do it is to make the materials available in the library where an update list would be kept. Students who want to obtain specific literature can request them from a librarian. The child must request the material.

It would of course be much better not to have religious materials distributed on school property period.


The ultimate dilemma, and it is going to happen, is when a non-Judeo Christian faith applies to use a school auditorium for religious services on the weekend. This happens all over America, as far as I can tell. Schools rent out their auditoriums to fledgling churches who are saving money to purchase land and build their own church. I don't have a problem with it and I never have. Makes good sense to me. Sooner or later, however, a Muslim or Wiccan, maybe even a Buddhist group will make an application to an available school and be denied on the basis of religion.
 
Local control of schools.
 
Hatuey said:
Can you imagine if the school was giving out the Communist manifesto? We'd NEVER hear the end of it.
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They don't have to hand it out, they'll be sure and ingrain it over the years...


j-mac
 
The school was in the wrong, nothing really else to say. :shrug:
 
Jerry said:
Only Muslims are supposed to touch the Quran, so it's unlikely Muslims even tried to make it available for the infidels to defile.
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That's a point. What I wonder is if any Muslim groups asked to leave literature at the school for interested students to pick up and were denied.

BTW, it looks like Ginger Strivelli has been at odds with this school system for a long time. Scroll down to the newspaper clipping she's posted dated 8/22/00.

APA in the News
 
roguenuke said:
Actually, it isn't clear why the school would not allow the woman to distribute the wiccan information.

It says that she tried to distribute it after she was assured by the school official that all donations of religious material of any kind would be allowed to be distributed, but then she was denied. It then says that they are looking into the practice and not accepting religious material donations at all. It does not say whether it was done as a result of her initial complaint or as a result of her not being able to distribute the Wiccan information.
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Gee, I'm shocked to learn that they found a way around the Wiccan.
 
Goshin said:
Local control of schools.
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With the government having to step in to ensure some equality and balance - yes. . . much less government involvement rather than 100% local governance.

Because some locals are insane - we've seen some bizarre events unfold purely because of the actions and beliefs of some school district officials.
 
I don't think the school did anything wrong by making the donated bibles available to kids. They weren't handed out to them, the kids were simply told that they were available if they wanted one. Due to budgetary concerns, I don't even believe that the school has a responsibility to try and buy other religious material to make sure they have some of everything available. However, they screwed up big time when they wouldn't take the material that the pagan mom was willing to donate and make it as freely available as the bibles.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
With the government having to step in to ensure some equality and balance - yes. . . much less government involvement rather than 100% local governance.

Because some locals are insane - we've seen some bizarre events unfold purely because of the actions and beliefs of some school district officials.
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I hear many complaining that No Child Left Behind is pretty lame.
 
Goshin said:
Local control of schools.
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Exactly. That is the way it must be. The school board should decide. It will be a contentious issue and I promise no school board wants to tackle it because you can't please everyone. But, school boards are elected to govern schools and that's their job. I doubt seriously that the school board in Mecklengburg County would have a great deal of difficulty, but take a county like Chowan and it may be a different story.

I can see rural counties, being more conservative, not wanting to compromise. Citizens would be more likely to insist that only the Bible should be handed out and nothing else.
 
So I e-mailed a Wiccan and licensed pagan minister whose earliest training was with Sybil Leek for clarification about "sacred texts" and etc. Here is the response:

Never met her. Witchcraft is one of many methods of directing energy (like Judeo Christian prayer, Buddhist chants etc.). Spell, which is ws, are NOT religious materials, they are more like science workbook pages. The only recognized Pagan Religion is Wicca. Pagans do not have any compendium of sacred texts, which is why most pagans define it as a belief system. Wicca DOES have a static written codex with state rules and guidelines, so Wicca IS a religion.

I agree with her main claim that if you are going to distribute Bibles, Torahs, Korans, Bhaggadhavitas, Books of Mormon etc...should also be equally available and NO public school should be distributing ANY type of religious training or materials. I do NOT agree with her demand to distribute spells or to prosletyze to minors in any fashion. Until a child is self supporting and independent I will not discuss spells or train them without written consent from a parent and their participation in the process (usually in the form of discussion with their child and me) as the child learns. This woman seems sincere but misguided.

Not sure what is meant by "ws."
 
nota bene said:
So I e-mailed a Wiccan and licensed pagan minister whose earliest training was with Sybil Leek for clarification about "sacred texts" and etc. Here is the response:

Never met her. Witchcraft is one of many methods of directing energy (like Judeo Christian prayer, Buddhist chants etc.). Spell, which is ws, are NOT religious materials, they are more like science workbook pages. The only recognized Pagan Religion is Wicca. Pagans do not have any compendium of sacred texts, which is why most pagans define it as a belief system. Wicca DOES have a static written codex with state rules and guidelines, so Wicca IS a religion.

I agree with her main claim that if you are going to distribute Bibles, Torahs, Korans, Bhaggadhavitas, Books of Mormon etc...should also be equally available and NO public school should be distributing ANY type of religious training or materials. I do NOT agree with her demand to distribute spells or to prosletyze to minors in any fashion. Until a child is self supporting and independent I will not discuss spells or train them without written consent from a parent and their participation in the process (usually in the form of discussion with their child and me) as the child learns. This woman seems sincere but misguided.

Not sure what is meant by "ws."
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So what?

I have a basic Wiccan spellbook in my house, along with a few other spellbooks, three Bibles, the Koran, the one the Church of Latter Day Saints gives out free, and a book with many teachings of Buddha. I don't see why any of these would not be appropriate for children, especially young teens. And it would certainly not be inappropriate for her to give out pamphlets describing what Wicca is all about and talking about the energy and gods/goddesses there are to believe in.

Although I think the woman is pushing the issue, she also seems to have very good reason for doing so from reading that linked blog/website of hers. The school district is in the wrong here and should have started addressing this problem over 10 years ago when she first brought it to their attention.
 
roguenuke said:
So what?

I have a basic Wiccan spellbook in my house, along with a few other spellbooks, three Bibles, the Koran, the one the Church of Latter Day Saints gives out free, and a book with many teachings of Buddha. I don't see why any of these would not be appropriate for children, especially young teens.
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I don't either - but some parents DO. And that's their right.
 
Religion has no place in government, public schools, etc and the discussion of it is counter productive to our welfare as a nation. The focus on the issues at hand, the economy, defense, foreign policy, debt, taxes, etc....leave the childish bs who is giving out bibles, who went to church on Sunday or who's ****ing who​
 
misterman said:
I don't either - but some parents DO. And that's their right.
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I understand, to a point (I don't believe parents should have as much authority over high school age students as to make such decisions).

But, this is one of the reasons that I agree with just keeping all such things from being given away at school.
 
Vouchers. Then almost everyone can send their kid to the school that teaches what they want, whether it is purely academic or religious or whatever.
 
Blue_State said:
I am not sure that it makes me a religious bigot that I think the parents should have the overall authority on whether or not religious materials are available at the school of their children.
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Seeing how this is public school it therefore makes it a tax payer funded institute and as such it can not show preference to any particular religion since that would be respecting the establishment of religion.Therefore you must allow all religious books to be distributed.
 
I'm not sure if anyone has touched on this (I haven't read every post in depth); but the article noted that the Bibles were available for pickup by interested students. It DOES NOT say that they were handed out by the school. It sounds to me like she should be asking her son why he went and picked one up in the school office.

Obviously that does not eliminate the issue that only the writings of a particular religious group are available and that either all should be, or none should be; but it would seem that mom needs to sit down with junior and find out why he went and picked the Bible up. Unless I am misreading something in the story.
 
There is no solicitation allowed at public schools. Religion is the ULTIMATE solicitation.
 
ric27 said:
Religion has no place in government, public schools, etc and the discussion of it is counter productive to our welfare as a nation.
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Wow, ol' ric got one right.
 
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