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Thread: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

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    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Let's try this again. A kid coming home with a bible from a public school. You see no problem?

    (Appropriate screen name you go there).
    I think it depends on the context. When the kid was not tought about Christianity in an indoctrinating manner, I don't see a problem with it. Teaching kids about religion in public schools is a good thing, IMO, as long as this lecture is not biased towards one religion or denomination. Likewise, I don't think it's indoctrination when kids get to read from Karl Marx' "The Capital" or Hitler's "Mein Kampf" in class, or being provided with free copies, as long as the context of the lecture is not indoctrinating. Lessons should provide different points of view on the respective topic, of course, and enable kids to get familiar with these different views. You can't do that without reading some source material.

    Ideally, kids should be taught about all important religions in school, in a scientific manner -- the role of the respective religions in history, science and culture of different countries. Religion happened and it's real, and avoiding to teach kids about it is just as absurd as avoiding to teach them about homosexuality, which exists too and won't go away by ignoring it. You won't get a real picture of the real world, when you avoid this topic.
    Last edited by German guy; 01-20-12 at 10:53 AM.
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    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Nope I don't have a problem with it as long as other religious texts are available for distribution as well. In this case the school prohibited the distribution of other religious texts and is in the wrong for that.
    The schools aren't a religion bazaar. This isn't about access by religion to schools, it's about parents controlling what kids learn about religion. A parent may want a kid not to see any other religious texts, or any of them at all. Simply leave that decision to the parents.
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    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I think it depends on the context. When the kid was not tought about Christianity in an indoctrinating manner, I don't see a problem with it. Teaching kids about religion in public schools is a good thing, IMO, as long as this lecture is not biased towards one religion or denomination.
    You don't get to decide that.

    I want my kid to learn the religious beliefs I choose for him. The end. If I want him to learn about other religions, and which ones, that will be my choice only.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    So you'd have no problem if your kid brought Mein Kampf home from school and said the school was giving them away?
    None at all. Provided it was in actuality some Nazi's that had left the books, and not the school itself. When I was in school I read the Bible, the Koran, Mein Kampf, the Communist Manifesto and the Illiad, and surprise, I didn't turn out to be a Christian, Muslim, Nazi, Communist, hairy homosexual. Hell, considering some of the **** that gets published as teen literature, I'd actively encourage kids to read religious and political texts.
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    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    The schools aren't a religion bazaar. This isn't about access by religion to schools, it's about parents controlling what kids learn about religion. A parent may want a kid not to see any other religious texts, or any of them at all. Simply leave that decision to the parents.
    School members hand out flyer to various things all the time. The students can choose to take them or not. It is the same as a religious text. If a parent doesn't want a child to see a religious text or afraid their child will see something they don't want them to, homeschool them.

    This is ridiculous.

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    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    As a Christian, I think it would be perfectly reasonable for the Wiccan woman to pass out her scriptures if others can pass out Bibles. I see no problem with allowing her to do so and I think it's wrong to deny her when other groups are allowed to do so.
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    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    You don't get to decide that.

    I want my kid to learn the religious beliefs I choose for him. The end. If I want him to learn about other religions, and which ones, that will be my choice only.
    Are you going to prohibit your child from going to the library, or google searching as well at school? Religoious texts are EVERYWHERE and it is nearly impossible to keep a child from seeing it. That's like saying you don't want your child to learn what the internet is. It's nearly impossible.

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    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    You don't get to decide that.

    I want my kid to learn the religious beliefs I choose for him. The end. If I want him to learn about other religions, and which ones, that will be my choice only.
    You think you have the right to raise your kid to become a one-sided bigot?

    I'd say, if that's your opinion, don't send him or her to public schools. Public schools have the purpose of preparing the kid to be fit for life and reality, and to help the kid to become a mature and responsible person, IMO. Denying kids knowledge about important aspects of reality is in contradiction with this purpose.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    So you have no problem with government-run schools indoctrinating our children with religion?

    (Not that it matters, since the Constitution says you can't anyway).
    I answered this twice already and while I don't mind repeating myself, I'll simply point you back to those other posts so you can inform yourself.

    However, I'm always amazed at the misinformation about the Constitution. No where in the Constitution does it state that religion cannot be provided in schools. The religion clause states:


    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    Notice, it doesn't say "Children cannot be indoctrinated with religion in government-run schools" in fact, you could not be more wrong about the clause if you tried to be. And it "matters" in the sense that ill conceived notions, misinformation and outright ignorance about what the Constitution actually says is still very prevalent, as you have shown. The Establishment Clauses in the Constitution do not say anything about schools - and the notion of a "separation between church and state" is not included in the Constitution, that was lifted from a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote.

    I do not want to debate Engle vs Vitale all over again, but don't attribute things to the Constitution before checking it.... if you want to say that the Supreme Court in various legal decisions have supported a separation between church and state, that's fine.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    None at all.
    Well, I would suggest that you are in the extreme minority.

    And that's even before we consider the fact that distributing the Bible, unlike Mien Kampf, has constitutional implications.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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