Page 10 of 31 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 302

Thread: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

  1. #91
    Dungeon Master
    Veni, vidi, dormivi!

    spud_meister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Didjabringabeeralong
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    33,877
    Blog Entries
    8

    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Well, I would suggest that you are in the extreme minority.
    Probably because I realise people are capable of thinking, and don't do what any random book tells them to do.
    And that's even before we consider the fact that distributing the Bible, unlike Mien Kampf, has constitutional implications.
    Right, good point:
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
    By banning people from bringing bibles to schools, you're prohibiting the free exercise of religion.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  2. #92
    Sage
    German guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 06:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    5,187

    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Well, I would suggest that you are in the extreme minority.

    And that's even before we consider the fact that distributing the Bible, unlike Mien Kampf, has constitutional implications.
    You mean "Mein Kampf" has no constitutional implications? WTF?!
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  3. #93
    Sage
    misterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    02-09-12 @ 08:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,913

    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I answered this twice already and while I don't mind repeating myself, I'll simply point you back to those other posts so you can inform yourself.

    However, I'm always amazed at the misinformation about the Constitution. No where in the Constitution does it state that religion cannot be provided in schools. The religion clause states:


    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    Notice, it doesn't say "Children cannot be indoctrinated with religion in government-run schools" in fact, you could not be more wrong about the clause if you tried to be. And it "matters" in the sense that ill conceived notions, misinformation and outright ignorance about what the Constitution actually says is still very prevalent, as you have shown. The Establishment Clauses in the Constitution do not say anything about schools - and the notion of a "separation between church and state" is not included in the Constitution, that was lifted from a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote.

    I do not want to debate Engle vs Vitale all over again, but don't attribute things to the Constitution before checking it.... if you want to say that the Supreme Court in various legal decisions have supported a separation between church and state, that's fine.
    Sigh.

    It doesn't say alot of things, but it still applies.

    That's why we have courts, and decisions like Engel v. Vitale, which says more than what you just posted from the First Amendment, doesn't it?

    In short, here's the response, which you should know or pretend not to:

    Public schools are run by the government and are bound by the First Amendment. Teaching children religion violates the establishment clause of that amendment. Therefore, no teaching religion in schools.

    And Engel v. Vitale said the fact that the instruction (in that case, a prayer) was voluntary was irrelevant.

    So thanks for citing the case that proves you wrong. You saved me a little homework.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  4. #94
    Guru
    Samhain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Northern Ohio
    Last Seen
    12-14-17 @ 05:15 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    3,887

    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Sigh.

    It doesn't say alot of things, but it still applies.

    That's why we have courts, and decisions like Engel v. Vitale, which says more than what you just posted from the First Amendment, doesn't it?

    In short, here's the response, which you should know or pretend not to:

    Public schools are run by the government and are bound by the First Amendment. Teaching children religion violates the establishment clause of that amendment. Therefore, no teaching religion in schools.

    And Engel v. Vitale said the fact that the instruction (in that case, a prayer) was voluntary was irrelevant.

    So thanks for citing the case that proves you wrong. You saved me a little homework.
    And since no person in the school was teaching religion, your point is mute.

  5. #95
    Sage
    misterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    02-09-12 @ 08:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,913

    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Probably because I realise people are capable of thinking, and don't do what any random book tells them to do.
    This is CHILDREN we are talking about. They are by definition not legally "capable of thinking." That's why they are not allowed to drive, vote, sign contracts, drink, etc. - did you notice?

    Nobody cares if you give bibles away to adults.

    By banning people from bringing bibles to schools, you're prohibiting the free exercise of religion.
    Nobody's banning anyone from bringing bibles to school here. Don't get desperate.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  6. #96
    Sage
    misterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    02-09-12 @ 08:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,913

    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    And since no person in the school was teaching religion, your point is mute.
    That's debatable.

    And a court may decide that issue soon.

    Luckily, judges do a much better job of understanding the law and the Constitution and sorting out all these details than the Internet does.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  7. #97
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I wasn't aware children got abortions at school, perhaps you can show us the link where this happens?
    You've never seen a few Planned Parenthood flyers sitting quietly on a desk in a school hall before?

    That is all we're talking about, after all...literature just sitting there, 100% optional to take or leave. I mean, I can link to schools helping minor children, during school houres, get abortions without their parent's knowledge or consent, but the religious equivalent did not occur at this school. No student was converted just as no student had an abortion in the school's nurse's office. It's just information, sitting there quietly, students can take it or leave it.

    As a sidebar, the wiccan woman was only turned away after the school started an investigation of her accusations and a review of the school's policies. At the time she was not allowed to offer wiccan material, the school did not have bibles available.

  8. #98
    Dungeon Master
    Veni, vidi, dormivi!

    spud_meister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Didjabringabeeralong
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    33,877
    Blog Entries
    8

    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    This is CHILDREN we are talking about. They are by definition not legally "capable of thinking." That's why they are not allowed to drive, vote, sign contracts, drink, etc. - did you notice?

    Nobody cares if you give bibles away to adults.
    We're not talking about legally here, we're talking about reality, a 12 year old isn't going to give up eating pork until he reaches the New Testament.


    Nobody's banning anyone from bringing bibles to school here. Don't get desperate.
    Sorry? When you say it's unconstitutional for people to leave bibles at schools, what do you propose be done?
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  9. #99
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Last Seen
    08-29-17 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    16,575

    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You've never seen a few Planned Parenthood flyers sitting quietly on a desk in a school hall before?

    That is all we're talking about, after all...literature just sitting there, 100% optional to take or leave. I mean, I can link to schools helping minor children, during school houres, get abortions without their parent's knowledge or consent, but the religious equivalent did not occur at this school. No student was converted just as no student had an abortion in the school's nurse's office. It's just information, sitting there quietly, students can take it or leave it.

    As a sidebar, the wiccan woman was only turned away after the school started an investigation of her accusations and a review of the school's policies. At the time she was not allowed to offer wiccan material, the school did not have bibles available.
    Literature of Planned parenthood is not having an abortion at school, no matter how you want to try and spin it. Sorry, you lose there. And like I don't agree with a school official directly handing out bibles, I don't think a school official should be sending a child to planned parenthood. However, in the majority of schools, school officials do not send children to planned parenthood.

  10. #100
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Seen
    03-16-12 @ 11:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,624

    Re: Pagan mom challenges Bible giveaway at North Carolina school

    "You can either open your public school up to all religious material, or you can say no religious material," Michael Broyde, a professor and senior fellow at Emory University's Center for the Study of Law and Religion said. "You can't say, 'You can distribute religious material, but only from the good mainstream faiths.'"

    Read more: Pagan Mom Challenges Bible Giveaway At North Carolina School | Fox News


    No problem from me there with that statement.

Page 10 of 31 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •