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Thread: Megaupload file-sharing site shut down, founders charged

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    Re: Megaupload file-sharing site shut down, founders charged

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    This is a controversial topic. I'm not bothered either way, but I can accept a limit amount of Intellectual Property rights. I do not think we have anything like that, we have a very broad regime that keeps seeming to expand.
    IMO the vast majority of this is about stealing recent work. There may be an odd arguement outside of that but those are not why we have a problem.

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    Re: Megaupload file-sharing site shut down, founders charged

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Yes and that limited time had been set at lifetime + 70 years. Either wait, or quit stealing it.
    My point was that the law should be changed, not that people should ignore the law. You stated there was no legal argument for why people shouldn't be able to pass down their IP rights to their descendants. I think the Constitution makes a pretty clear legal argument that the right is supposed to be limited, and it is supposed to be afforded to creators, not their children.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

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    Re: Megaupload file-sharing site shut down, founders charged

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    My point was that the law should be changed, not that people should ignore the law. You stated there was no legal argument for why people shouldn't be able to pass down their IP rights to their descendants. I think the Constitution makes a pretty clear legal argument that the right is supposed to be limited, and it is supposed to be afforded to creators, not their children.
    I've been clear on what I think about many of these arguements but I certainly wouldn't be against some changes. Do I think it's a good thing that to hear MLK's I have a dream speech is to pay the family for the rights? No, I don't.

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    Re: Megaupload file-sharing site shut down, founders charged

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Basically, IMO that's what it boils down to. If iTunes started charging .50 cents as opposed to .99 cents IMO few would quit simply stealing it.
    And I would actually suggest that if you adjusted for the invent of higher speed connections which has simply made it more possible to download then in the past, that you'd likely find that upon the invent of iTunes and the ability to buy individual songs you like rather than having to purchase an entire album for a single song that pirating music actually subsided a bit compared to the days of napster.

    It seems to me that you said that you understood why people pirated things and that the pirating brought about welcomed changes.
    Sure, I UNDERSTAND why people pirate things...doesn't make it right. I understand in part why terrorists do what they do...doesn't make it right. I understand at times what someone who got mugged or raped possibly did to put themselves in that situation...doesn't mean I condone them being mugged or raped. I understand completely why some people smoke pot...doesn't mean that I am in favor of them breaking the law.

    Its possible to understand WHY someone is doing something, and even to a bit perhaps sympathize with their reasoning, while at the same time being against their action or perceived solution to their issues or views. I agree with Pirates that the model of many entertainment businesses is outmoded and lacking in regards to the modern age, however I break with them in the belief that BECAUSE of that it should be perfectly viable to download their works for free. Simply because I understand their reasoning doesn't mean I agree with their conclusion. Just because I agree with SOME of their conclusions, such as the notion that entertainment companies should reevaluate their supply chains, doesn't mean I agree with ALL of them. If you want to ASSUME that, then your ignorance to what I ACTUALLY think and your ignorance of placing views on me that I don't have is your own problem not mine.

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    Re: Megaupload file-sharing site shut down, founders charged

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And I would actually suggest that if you adjusted for the invent of higher speed connections which has simply made it more possible to download then in the past, that you'd likely find that upon the invent of iTunes and the ability to buy individual songs you like rather than having to purchase an entire album for a single song that pirating music actually subsided a bit compared to the days of napster.
    I wouldn't argue against the idea that there is a percentage that d/l off of Napster and for various reasons no longer do that. iTunes likely had some impact on that.

    Sure, I UNDERSTAND why people pirate things...doesn't make it right. I understand in part why terrorists do what they do...doesn't make it right. I understand at times what someone who got mugged or raped possibly did to put themselves in that situation...doesn't mean I condone them being mugged or raped. I understand completely why some people smoke pot...doesn't mean that I am in favor of them breaking the law.

    Its possible to understand WHY someone is doing something, and even to a bit perhaps sympathize with their reasoning, while at the same time being against their action or perceived solution to their issues or views. I agree with Pirates that the model of many entertainment businesses is outmoded and lacking in regards to the modern age, however I break with them in the belief that BECAUSE of that it should be perfectly viable to download their works for free. Simply because I understand their reasoning doesn't mean I agree with their conclusion. Just because I agree with SOME of their conclusions, such as the notion that entertainment companies should reevaluate their supply chains, doesn't mean I agree with ALL of them. If you want to ASSUME that, then your ignorance to what I ACTUALLY think and your ignorance of placing views on me that I don't have is your own problem not mine.
    We are discussing a subject. I mentioned what it seemed to me to be your position. You then did a good job furthering your thoughts on the subject. Seems like how it's supposed to work......

    Anyway, we both seem to agree that those who pirate the works of others should be stopped. Do I have that right?

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    Re: Megaupload file-sharing site shut down, founders charged

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Anyway, we both seem to agree that those who pirate the works of others should be stopped. Do I have that right?
    Absolutely, at the same time I don't believe the issue is to such a point that significant potential violations of civil rights or significant change or damage to the way the internet functions is required or justified.

    In this particular case, if Mega Upload was specifically attempting to court people who would put up illegal material onto their site by specifically paying them to do such and to advertise it, then that's a problem. On the flip side, if Megaupload is simply paying people who drive traffic to their site in general or who are extreme repeat users to their site in general then the fact that some who take advantage of that are piraters shouldn't mean the government can simply take down megaupload, especially if megaupload was abiding by rules regarding how they are supposed to react to copywriter material on their website when alerted. There are legitimate and worth while legal uses for a site like mega-upload.

    Also, what I will say, is that some of what's considered "pirating" at times I don't believe counts. For example, if I buy a game and download it to my home PC; making a copy to then put the software that I purchased onto my laptop as well, to me, is not "pirating" though some video game manufacturers have tried to fight against such a thing if my memory serves me.

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    Re: Megaupload file-sharing site shut down, founders charged

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Absolutely, at the same time I don't believe the issue is to such a point that significant potential violations of civil rights or significant change or damage to the way the internet functions is required or justified.
    I understand that point BUT I do not believe SOPA would do that. I understand that it was the winning arguement but as I said, to me it was nothing more than redundancy so that D.C. could say to the big entertainment money that they were doing something.

    I do not believe SOPA is needed because as we've seen the government can already shut down rogue websites. My problem was what I see as hyperbole. Not being an expert here, I believe those stealing have thoughts that SOPA might make it a little easier to shut them down. Maybe, maybe not, but from what I've seen any changes would be small at most.

    I've asked and asked for the pertinant information in the bill. In return I get video's of what someone else claims the bill would do.

    In this particular case, if Mega Upload was specifically attempting to court people who would put up illegal material onto their site by specifically paying them to do such and to advertise it, then that's a problem. On the flip side, if Megaupload is simply paying people who drive traffic to their site in general or who are extreme repeat users to their site in general then the fact that some who take advantage of that are piraters shouldn't mean the government can simply take down megaupload, especially if megaupload was abiding by rules regarding how they are supposed to react to copywriter material on their website when alerted. There are legitimate and worth while legal uses for a site like mega-upload.
    I have never been to the site. I have no idea what they did. I believe they deserve to have their day in court. I believe that if the government can not prove that the owners of the site knew what was going on and did not stop it, then the site should be able to recover damages with precedent set as to what standards are required.

    Also, what I will say, is that some of what's considered "pirating" at times I don't believe counts. For example, if I buy a game and download it to my home PC; making a copy to then put the software that I purchased onto my laptop as well, to me, is not "pirating" though some video game manufacturers have tried to fight against such a thing if my memory serves me.
    I have no idea about your particular case. This same example was used concerning iTunes but I noted that they allow me to put what I purchase on anything I own.

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    Re: Megaupload file-sharing site shut down, founders charged

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    IMO the vast majority of this is about stealing recent work. There may be an odd arguement outside of that but those are not why we have a problem.
    I'm not wild about corporate-capitalism anyway, so it all blends into one for me. Plus most of it is filth, if enough piracy put the likes of Lady Gaga out of business, well I don't think I'd complain. But I can accept a certain, limited right to Intellectual Property rights, and in the end probably support, although I could accept there being no such legal rights.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-22-12 at 04:34 PM.
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    Re: Megaupload file-sharing site shut down, founders charged

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I'm not wild about corporate-capitalism anyway, so it all blends into one for me. Plus most of it is filth, if enough piracy put the likes of Lady Gaga out of business, well I don't think I'd complain. But I can accept a certain, limited right to Intellectual Property rights, and in the end probably support, although I could accept there being no such legal rights.
    I'd support getting you to cut my grass for free also.

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    Re: Megaupload file-sharing site shut down, founders charged

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I'd support getting you to cut my grass for free also.
    Doesn't make sense mate. Even though I lukewarmedly support Intellectual Property rights, you are talking about very different rights. You are talking about what is scarce, which was originally one major reason for property rights. Whereas Intellectual Property rights are about creating an artificial scarcity in order to benefit the owner.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-22-12 at 05:15 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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