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Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

Remind me never to buy a map from you.

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The oil pipeline was built across the Rockies to Vancouver.


thank you (and the subsequent poster, Samhain)
then it appears the route thru the USA is non-essential to accomplish this goal
we can prevent any environmental damage and forgo the $1 billion in employment dollars
seems a decent trade-off
canada can move its pipeline within its borders
problem solved
 
thank you (and the subsequent poster, Samhain)
then it appears the route thru the USA is non-essential to accomplish this goal
we can prevent any environmental damage and forgo the $1 billion in employment dollars
seems a decent trade-off
canada can move its pipeline within its borders
problem solved

Yeah, no problem.........screw all the construction jobs, restaurant jobs, hotel jobs, supply jobs, refinery jobs, welder jobs, support industry jobs, shipping jobs, etc, etc, etc.

Not to mention, China needs the oil more than us, right ???

We can get all we need from the middle east. Screw Canada, who needs them.

By the way, you posted an awful lot just to admit you were wrong. Now I know why you "once owned" a surveying and drafting business.
 
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I just love it how so many lefties counted a job "saved" if someone worked an extra half day under the Obama stimulus, yet are delighted to piss away thousands of good paying jobs to kill a real shovel ready project that they don't like.
 
Obama is a fool for rejecting this.
 
why?
tell us how the benefits outweigh the negatives

Creates jobs, helps international trade, helps the oil industry, and pisses off hippies.
 
Yeah, no problem.........screw all the construction jobs, restaurant jobs, hotel jobs, supply jobs, refinery jobs, welder jobs, support industry jobs, shipping jobs, etc, etc, etc.
yep. we would have to forego the $1 billion in wages that would otherwise be generated by a route thru the USA

Not to mention, China needs the oil more than us, right ???
china will have as much right to the resulting oil as the USA
we would not be entitled to do anything other than buy it from the world market just like china
in short, you have no point

We can get all we need from the middle east. Screw Canada, who needs them.
canada will be able to put its oil in the world oil market using a pipeline thru its own territory
makes no difference to us whether the oil comes from the middle east, venezuela, nigeria, mexico or canada. it is imported oil
again, you have no point
other than we will have to forfeit $1 billion our American workers would have otherwise earned had the pipeline gone thru the USA
i am willing to bet the study, once completed, will indicate that the cost of environmental abatement of the additional emissions for 300-500 years will far exceed that dollar amount
then we will also not have to sustain any damage to our nation's aquifers, or disturb the wildlife habitat
nor will we subject our citizens to the forced loss of use of their real properties so that a canadian pipeline can be built to further enrich the oil industry

By the way, you posted an awful lot just to admit you were wrong. Now I know why you "once owned" a surveying and drafting business.
yep, as soon as mechanical plotters were available i saw the writing on the wall and shut down my business while i could still walk away with a profit, at age 23. it was also the date i passed my PE
only to later retire at 51
so wrong
 
Are you actually comparing 20,000 gallons to the Exxon Valdez ???? I hope you know how absurd that is. The Exxon Valdez spilled between 10.5 million gallons and 31 million gallons.

You fixed nothing, except in your own mind.

Looks like this went way over your head. The point here, it doesn't matter if a spill is an ink dot, 20,000 gallons, the Exxon Valdez, or the leak the size of Baltimore. You people would say the same damn thing in every case.
 
yep. we would have to forego the $1 billion in wages that would otherwise be generated by a route thru the USA


china will have as much right to the resulting oil as the USA
we would not be entitled to do anything other than buy it from the world market just like china
in short, you have no point


canada will be able to put its oil in the world oil market using a pipeline thru its own territory
makes no difference to us whether the oil comes from the middle east, venezuela, nigeria, mexico or canada. it is imported oil
again, you have no point
other than we will have to forfeit $1 billion our American workers would have otherwise earned had the pipeline gone thru the USA
i am willing to bet the study, once completed, will indicate that the cost of environmental abatement of the additional emissions for 300-500 years will far exceed that dollar amount
then we will also not have to sustain any damage to our nation's aquifers, or disturb the wildlife habitat
nor will we subject our citizens to the forced loss of use of their real properties so that a canadian pipeline can be built to further enrich the oil industry


yep, as soon as mechanical plotters were available i saw the writing on the wall and shut down my business while i could still walk away with a profit, at age 23. it was also the date i passed my PE
only to later retire at 51
so wrong

yeah, the hell with American jobs, right ??? Can't wait to paste your post in the next thread that you lambaste Republicans for "killing" jobs.
 
I can't for the life of me, figure out why it is that in an election year, that a project that is a no brainer as far as jobs, oil supply from a friendly ally, and union support of the project is anything but a win, win, win for this administration. It doesn't make sense that this is rejected.

j-mac

It was not rejected, only the current proposal with it's ridiculous House mandated deadline was. Transcanada can and will simply submit a new plan for approval after the proper studies are done. There is no rush and it seems we could at least get them to use American steel this time. It seems rude to use Russian Steel, don't you think?
 
Looks like this went way over your head. The point here, it doesn't matter if a spill is an ink dot, 20,000 gallons, the Exxon Valdez, or the leak the size of Baltimore. You people would say the same damn thing in every case.

If you think that the damage is the same from any oil spill, no matter the size, then the entire subject went WAAAY over your head.

"You" people don't know what the hell you're talking about. Generalizations don't win you any points.
 
But rejecting the pipeline won’t reduce global carbon emissions or the risk of environmentally destructive spills.


Canada’s government — and rising world petroleum prices — guarantee that the country will extract the oil from its tar sands, and that Asia will take it if America doesn’t. That means using pipelines to transport Canada’s heavy crude hundreds of miles to the West Coast and then shipping it abroad, burning fossil fuels and risking ocean spills along the way. China already has a large stake in Canadian oil production. Plans are already in the works to build the necessary pipelines.


Critics fall back on the allegation that petroleum companies want to export much of the Canadian oil abroad after refining it in Gulf Coast facilities. With access to the world oil market, they can and should have that option. But if export markets are that attractive, Canadian crude will reach them without transiting the United States, and American refineries will get their low-grade crude from somewhere else. The bottom line remains: The more American refineries source their low-grade crude via pipeline from Canada and not from tankers out of the Middle East or Venezuela, the better, even if not every refined barrel stays in the country.


Producing energy is a dirty business, and it will remain so for a long time, even with the right policies. Part of facing this reality is admitting that how the world produces energy must change over time. But another part is accepting that oil production will continue for decades and clear-headedly managing the risks — not pretending we can wish them away.
Keystone XL pipeline is the wrong target for protesters - The Washington Post

Even the liberal Washington Post believes the pipeline should be built.
 
It was not rejected, only the current proposal with it's ridiculous House mandated deadline was. Transcanada can and will simply submit a new plan for approval after the proper studies are done. There is no rush and it seems we could at least get them to use American steel this time. It seems rude to use Russian Steel, don't you think?

You realize this project was proposed in 2008?
You realize that the project has gone through the NEPA process?
Where was the objections at the start of the proposal, or even by the President during the NEPA process?
Buying American steel would be better.
 
It was not rejected, only the current proposal with it's ridiculous House mandated deadline was. Transcanada can and will simply submit a new plan for approval after the proper studies are done. There is no rush and it seems we could at least get them to use American steel this time. It seems rude to use Russian Steel, don't you think?

Wrong...... base on construction of the other Keystone pipeline, about half of the pipe would be manufactured in the U.S. The rest would come from India and South Korea.

I wonder what the truckers that had hoped to transport the steel pipe from the coast to the construction site think about this delay???
 
If you think that the damage is the same from any oil spill, no matter the size, then the entire subject went WAAAY over your head.

"You" people don't know what the hell you're talking about. Generalizations don't win you any points.

Like I said, my point went way over your head.
 
I don't like what oil companies do to hold off alternative energy technology and I don't like how modern society is enslaved by it. But if we don't get more of it in here, until a transition occurs we're going to be walking everywhere or wondering why the trucks didn't bring food to the grocery markets.
 
here's why

jobs. 20,000 man years of employment. assuming that each job is valued at $50,000, the total payroll is $1 billion
desirable but not all that significant, actually
then divide that by the years to build it and the annual result will be found
even less significant

Pretty callous of you here...You should look into the eyes of the construction tradesman that just received his final notices for foreclosure, and doesn't know how to get some groceries for the family tonight. I am positive that your dismissal of the effects of his earning a paycheck will suffice.

oil supply. the oil will become part of the world's oil supply. it will cost whatever the going rate for oil costs. it is estimated that this additional supply will potentially reduce the price of a barrel of oil by $1 ... about 1% of the present $100 per barrel price. we will be bidding for that oil just like china and every other oil importing nation. nothing confers a preference to the USA for that oil


Estimated? by whom? Those opposed to this pipeline?

TransCanada believes Keystone XL will ultimately be approved, as it is too important to the U.S. economy and its national interest. As well, Keystone XL remains the best option for producers to supply crude oil to U.S. Gulf Coast Refineries.
The U.S. consumes 15 million barrels of oil each day and imports 10 to 11 million barrels per day. Industry forecasts predict oil consumption will continue at these levels for the next two to three decades, so a secure supply of crude oil is critical to U.S. energy security.
Keystone XL is shovel-ready. TransCanada is poised to put 13,000 Americans to work to construct the pipeline - pipefitters, welders, mechanics, electricians, heavy equipment operators, among other jobs - in addition to 7,000 manufacturing jobs that would be created across the U.S. Additionally, local businesses along the pipeline route will benefit from the 118,000 spin-off jobs Keystone XL will create through increased business for local goods and service providers.
TransCanada looks forward to concluding the U.S. regulatory review process and beginning the important work of building Keystone XL. The safe and reliable operation of our pipelines and infrastructure has been TransCanada's priority for 60 years. This same commitment will drive us forward in the years ahead.

Keystone Pipeline Project

union support. 20,000 man years of employment and nothing will compel all employees to be unionized. really think the union is going to support romney or santorum or gingrich instead of Obama. me either

Hite was one of four union presidents, representing 2.6 million workers, who sent a letter in October to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton urging approval for the project. The Keystone XL is a $7 billion privately funded project that is expected to stimulate $20 billion in new spending for the U.S. economy, spur the creation of 118,000 jobs and generate more than $585 million in state and local taxes for the states along the pipeline route.

Union Support For Keystone XL Pipeline Project | Pipeline News

Unions are behind the pipeline.

on the other hand there are issues of environmental impact. hence the need to follow the rules and not short cut to yes. this administration has not ruled out the possibility of approval of the project. it just refused to agree to a republican desired shortcut of the process

the emissions from the processing of canadian tar sands in the USA will substantially elevate environmentally damaging emissions from their present levels. what is the cost to the USA of dealing with that, forever ... well at least the 300-500 years that these tar sands will be available

the pipeline will at times be above aquifers. what is clean water worth to our kids

This pipeline has been deemed safe...

ALBERTA, Canada - The Keystone XL pipeline will be constructed and operated at a safety level beyond that of any existing crude oil pipeline in the United States, according to the recently released Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS).

Nebraska state agencies, local officials, emergency responders and other stakeholders played a key role in helping to ensure the safest and most environmentally protective route was chosen and the pipeline would be built and operated in a safe and reliable manner, with a focus on protecting the Sand Hills and the Ogallala aquifer.

"We have listened to Nebraskans and have utilized their input to ensure Keystone XL will be built to a safety level not seen before in a pipeline in the United States and that includes selecting the right route, which has been done," said Russ Girling, president and chief executive officer of TransCanada.

Since 2008, the U.S. Department of State has been leading a comprehensive environmental review of all aspects of Keystone XL. The FEIS review was the most detailed and comprehensive environmental review ever undertaken for a cross border pipeline.

In the FEIS, seven alternative routes were studied, including one potential alternative route in Nebraska that would have avoided the entire Sand Hills region and Ogallala aquifer, and six alternatives that would have reduced pipeline mileage crossing the Sand Hills or the aquifer. None of these seven alternatives were preferable to the proposed route as these alternatives would be longer than the proposed route and would disturb more land and cross more water bodies than the proposed route, according to the FEIS. The FEIS further determined these alternative routes would affect substantially more agricultural land, developed land, forested land, rangeland and wetlands.


Keystone XL Route Through Nebraska Deemed Safest Choice

Also:

Taken as a whole, releases from pipelines cause few annual fatalities compared to other product
transportation modes.

www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/R41536.pdf

Pipelines are among the safest ways in this country to transport oil.

animal habitats may be adversely impacted
they are a natural resource and we owe it to the next generations to be good stewards of those resources today

lots of good reasons not to go to a quick yes. but tell us what your aptly described 'no brainer' answer would be

Really? We are going to retreat back to the arguments of the Alaskan pipeline? Pipelines have no effect on animals, in fact due to their heat they may increase copulation of some species like we saw in Caribou.

Further:

The Ogallala or High Plains Aquifer underlies an area from South Dakota to Texas and is a significant source of water for drinking and irrigation. It is one of many treasured sources of water in the United States. Independent government analysis has concluded that a pipeline leak would not threaten the aquifer. Here are seven facts to help explain how this finding is consistent with the nature of the aquifer and other aspects of daily life.

Today, nearly 25,000 miles of petroleum pipelines exist within the Ogallala Aquifer, including 2,000 miles in Nebraska. These pipelines transport about 730,000,000,000 barrels of crude oil across the aquifer – each year, including nearly 100,000,000 barrels of crude oil transported across the aquifer in Nebraska. After this oil is refined into gasoline, diesel fuel, aviation gas and other products, pipelines transport much of it back across the aquifer for use on Nebraska farms, ranches and roads.

The Ogallala Aquifer | Nebraska | Keystone XL Pipeline

The argument about this being a danger is almost at the point of laughable.

i hope all of the folks who want this to proceed immediately will give me an easement across their real property sufficient to allow a 48 inch pipeline to be placed across it in perpetuity, which easement will prevent the owners' ability to ever situate any form of improvement on such property by them or their assigns. it's only fair. that is what you are willing to subject other Americans to accept

Eminent domain doesn't seem to be on the liberal radar when it is about taking someones home to build a higher taxation property. But then again, that goes along with bigger government sooooo...

j-mac
 
ok, show us any factual information which would allow us to find your conclusion credible

Well, the Obama administration said they were delaying considering approval to an unspecified future date. That would seem to at least indicate "delay."

The Obama administration is way in too much in bed with Wall Street and the money people to ever approve any domestic oil or gas production. Brokering foreign oil importation via tankers and futures speculation on oil futures is vastly lucrative no-effort money worth billions. Obama WILL protect the inside traders and middlemen in oil sales and futures.

Environmentalists are just being played like easy chumps over this. Tankers are the most environmentally dangerous and destructive means to transport oil. Yet they are protesting on behalf of super-tanker ships. Amazing.

At least protestors should be chanting accurately: "MORE SUPER TANKERS! MORE SUPER TANKERS!!"
 
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…jobs. 20,000 man years of employment. assuming that each job is valued at $50,000, the total payroll is $1 billion

And let’s not forget the $250 BILLION in tax revenues (based on an all-inclusive 25.1% EFFECTIVE tax rate on +/-$40k/yr. earners which includes all federal, state & local taxes personal and corporate income, payroll, property, sales, excise, estate etc. http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2011.pdf). Certainly not significant…only 20% or so of the national debt.
 
You realize this project was proposed in 2008?
You realize that the project has gone through the NEPA process?
Where was the objections at the start of the proposal, or even by the President during the NEPA process?
Buying American steel would be better.


Do you realize that the route was changed at Nebraska's request a few months ago?
That the project has to go through a new study for the new route?
Why don't you ask Bush why he didn't request American steel since it was his administration that was in charge n 2008
 
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Do you realize that the route was changed at Nebraska's request a few months ago?
That the project has to go through a new study for the new route?
Why don't you ask Bush why he didn't request American steel since it was his administration that was in charge n 2008


The route didn't need to be changed. This was a political delaying tactic to throw red meat to Obama's base voter block....Americans as they pay over $3.50 per gallon should be enraged.

j-mac
 
Well, the Obama administration said they were delaying considering approval to an unspecified future date. That would seem to at least indicate "delay."

The Obama administration is way in too much in bed with Wall Street and the money people to ever approve any domestic oil or gas production. Brokering foreign oil importation via tankers and futures speculation on oil futures is vastly lucrative no-effort money worth billions. Obama WILL protect the inside traders and middlemen in oil sales and futures.

Environmentalists are just being played like easy chumps over this. Tankers are the most environmentally dangerous and destructive means to transport oil. Yet they are protesting on behalf of super-tanker ships. Amazing.

At least protestors should be chanting accurately: "MORE SUPER TANKERS! MORE SUPER TANKERS!!"

The oil from that pipeline wil be loaded onto "super tankers" for export so you make no sense at all.
No to mention that domestice oil production is up 11% since Obama took office ending 8 years of diminishng production under that "oil man" Bush. Again you make no sense or you are talking nonsense take your pick.

drilling%20rigs.jpg
 
Yeah, no problem.........screw all the construction jobs, restaurant jobs, hotel jobs, supply jobs, refinery jobs, welder jobs, support industry jobs, shipping jobs, etc, etc, etc. [...]
You forgot the bars. And the hookers.

But do illuminate us on how many restaurants and hotels are going to be built to support a, what, 3-year pipeline construction job?

Not to mention, China needs the oil more than us, right ???
Oil. Is. Fungible.

We can get all we need from the middle east.
Indeed we can. It would be much cleaner oil as well. But wouldn't it be smarter to reduce our oil consumption by, say, 5%?
 
The route didn't need to be changed. This was a political delaying tactic to throw red meat to Obama's base voter block....Americans as they pay over $3.50 per gallon should be enraged.
Is it guaranteed that the oil (after being refined) would flow into American gas tanks?
 
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