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Thread: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

  1. #671
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    There won't be MORE oil.. This will be the same bitumen that was processed in out Mid West refineries.
    To sell it out of the Free Trade Zone in Texas to more lucrative overseas markets.
    You and others keep making that claim, but have yet to offer a shred of evidence other than hysterics from environmental groups.
    Any evidence that proves the claim will be dismissed as "hysterics from environmental groups." Not because of the quality of the evidence, of course, but because of the source (in other words, truth from an environmental group is not, by your standards, true). If God Himself stated that the claim was true, he would be dismissed as a hysterical environmentalist. Therefore it is impossible for anyone to provide any proof that would meet your standards.

    Therefore the following is presented for the benefit of others:

    TransCanada recently refused to support a requirement that oil from Keystone XL be dedicated for use in the United States in a recent Congressional hearing.26 In December 2011, Representative Edward Markey asked TransCanada’s President, Alex Pourbaix, to support a condition that would require the oil on Keystone XL to be used in the United States.

    Mr. Pourbaix refused, saying that such a requirement would cause refineries to back out of their contracts. 27

    Source: http://www.nrdc.org/energy/files/kxlsecurity.pdf

    Video: Dec. 2, 2011: Markey questions if Keystone pipeline will really aid in US economic, nat'l security - YouTube
    When TransCanada initially proposed Keystone XL to Canadian regulators, the company acknowledged that Keystone XL would increase the cost of Canadian crude by $3 per barrel in the Gulf Coast market and by more than $6 per barrel in the Midwest crude market. (See TransCanada, Western Canadian Crude Supply and Markets. February 12, 2009. Application to the National Energy Board (February 2009), Appendix 3-1, at 28)

    http://www.nrdc.org/energy/files/kxlsecurity.pdf
    Retired Brigadier General Steven Anderson has announced his strong opposition to the bill recently proposed by Senator Lugar to expedite the Keystone XL pipeline. [...] General Anderson disagreed with Senator Lugar’s assertion that the proposed Keystone XL tar sands pipeline would be good for national security, noting that Keystone XL would act as a pathway for oil to be exported out of the country while doing nothing to solve the core problem - our country's oil dependence. The General concluded that the only way to reduce our reliance on volatile oil markets and unfriendly oil exports is to use less oil.

    Retired General: Lugar's Keystone XL bill will reduce U.S. national security | Anthony Swift's Blog | Switchboard, from NRDC
    In his final military assignment, he [Brigadier General (Ret.) Steven M. Anderson] served for two years on the Army Staff in the Pentagon as the Director, Operations and Logistics Readiness, Office of the Army Deputy Chief of Staff, G4 (logistics). General (Ret.) Anderson is a 1978 graduate of the US Military Academy at West Point and earned a Masters of Science degree in Operations Research and Systems Analysis Engineering at the Naval Postgraduate School in 1987.

    Steven M. Anderson Profile - Forbes.com
    Last edited by Karl; 02-02-12 at 05:40 PM.

  2. #672
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    It's good to know you can read one of my quotes, but the question was refine and not refinery capacity. I told you our strategy was to go after the Venezuelan market and it is. Venezuela is weak in it's ability to export crude and is strong in it's ability to refine crude, whether it's theirs or not. All the crude or product, like gasoline, in the world doesn't do you any good, if you can't sell it.
    Wrong... they are not strong in refining oil, at least the oil they produce because it is heavy, sour oil. The refineries they have are inefficient.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Wrong... they are not strong in refining oil, at least the oil they produce because it is heavy, sour oil. The refineries they have are inefficient.
    Less than half of every gallon of oil becomes gasoline. For heavy crude, like that produced by Venezuela, the number seems to be less than 10%. If a barrel of Arabian or West Texas light sweet crude produces 19.5 gallons of gasoline .

    That is offset somewhat, because the remaining 22 gallons may be used to make heating oil, diesel or plastics. http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/eng99/eng99288.ht...

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Wrong... they are not strong in refining oil, at least the oil they produce because it is heavy, sour oil. The refineries they have are inefficient.
    If you have something to say, back it up with figures from the EIA!

    You can find out how much crude we import from Venezuela or just about any fact about energy.

    When we quadruple our exports of gasoline in a year and a half, there is a reason for that change. It should be obvious, they are putting economic pressure on Iran and Venezuela.

    The argument that those tar sands are used to benefit our country with a larger supply of oil doesn't stand up to the facts of what is presently happening. The crude that makes the gasoline we are exporting doesn't come from tar sands.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    If you have something to say, back it up with figures from the EIA!

    You can find out how much crude we import from Venezuela or just about any fact about energy.

    When we quadruple our exports of gasoline in a year and a half, there is a reason for that change. It should be obvious, they are putting economic pressure on Iran and Venezuela.

    The argument that those tar sands are used to benefit our country with a larger supply of oil doesn't stand up to the facts of what is presently happening. The crude that makes the gasoline we are exporting doesn't come from tar sands.
    In 2009 Venezuela only exported 1.75 million barrels per day (bbl/d).. That isn't a lot... and exports have fallen since then.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    In 2009 Venezuela only exported 1.75 million barrels per day (bbl/d).. That isn't a lot... and exports have fallen since then.
    In 2010, the United States imported 987,000 bbl/d of crude oil and petroleum products from Venezuela, just 8.3 percent of total American imports. Even factoring in 255,000 bbl/d of imports from the U.S. Virgin Islands, which are almost exclusively petroleum products refined from Venezuelan crude, the significance of Venezuela to the American energy sector is in decline (see chart).

    In recent years, Venezuela has attempted to diversify its export destinations away from the United States. Besides the United States, other important destinations of Venezuelan petroleum exports include the Caribbean, Europe and Asia (see chart). One of the fastest growing destinations of Venezuelan crude oil exports has been China. In 2010, China imported 125,900 bbl/d of crude oil from Venezuela, up from only 39,000 bbl/d in 2005.
    Source: http://www.eia.gov/emeu/cabs/Venezuela/pdf.pdf

    The chart shows 2010 Venezuela exports to the following countries: United States 43%; Carribean 34%; Europe 7%; Other Asia 7%; China 6%; Other 3%

    These exports exceed Venezuela crude production, therefore it has to be product from Iranian crude.

    If someone has evidence of Iran getting gasoline all the way around the world from Venezuela, post it!

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    Source: http://www.eia.gov/emeu/cabs/Venezuela/pdf.pdf

    The chart shows 2010 Venezuela exports to the following countries: United States 43%; Carribean 34%; Europe 7%; Other Asia 7%; China 6%; Other 3%

    These exports exceed Venezuela crude production, therefore it has to be product from Iranian crude.

    If someone has evidence of Iran getting gasoline all the way around the world from Venezuela, post it!
    I will try to find it.. Iran has a small refining capacity..

    They import $6 billion a year in gasoline and have been on gas rationing since 2007.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Venezuela will continue to supply Iran with gasoline despite the threat of international sanctions.

    David Velasquez, Venezuela's ambassador to Tehran, said on Thursday that his government would not be "bullied" into halting gasoline shipments.


    "We are at the service of Iran, and whenever Iran needs, we will supply it with gasoline," Velasquez said in an interview with the semi-official Fars news agency.

    The United Nations in June imposed new economic sanctions on Iran because of concerns about its nuclear programme.

    The United States and European Union have also approved their own measures, which go further than the UN resolution.

    Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan president, has defended Iran's nuclear programme as "peaceful" and condemned the UN sanctions resolution. His Iranian counterpart, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, thanked him for his support earlier this week, according to Iran's ISNA news agency.

    Iran's falling imports

    Venezuela's promise offers symbolic support for Iran, but its practical impact is likely to be limited.

    Iran is the world's fifth-largest exporter of crude oil, but refining shortages force it to import much of its gasoline. The country's imports have plunged this summer, though, from 120,000 barrels per day in May to roughly 60,000 today. Energy analysts attribute the drop to international sanctions.


    Caracas to continue Iran gas export - Business - Al Jazeera English

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    I will try to find it.. Iran has a small refining capacity..

    They import $6 billion a year in gasoline and have been on gas rationing since 2007.
    You didn't say it and I know Iran gets gasoline from Persian Gulf countries. I'm sure the EIA has a report.

    I wouldn't want to ride half way around the world on a ship containing gasoline.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    You didn't say it and I know Iran gets gasoline from Persian Gulf countries. I'm sure the EIA has a report.

    I wouldn't want to ride half way around the world on a ship containing gasoline.
    What? Who?

    OPEC doesn't sell oil to Iran.

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