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Thread: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Agreed. My point is that it is often useless to talk to them. I did not mean to imply it was worthless to talk at them
    If every word was Ritalin, it wouldn't penetrate the right-wing brain.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    I think it's a good comparison, because your looking for a time when people will be drawn out of the Not in Labor Force category. That's why I said, it won't get any better than that. The Fed will stop the economy and not allow unemployment to go lower than 4%.

    The dot.com bubble was just a stock bubble and didn't have much of an affect the labor market. The loss of the money, after it bursted, is what affected the labor market.

    I always called that time the so-called Bush recession, because it's the first time in history the NBER called a recession that didn't have three consecutive quarters of negative GDP. I think buying up those government bonds were giving the Fed problems with bank lending, because the government bonds are used for collateral. Greenspan is on record opposing paying off the national debt and so is Bush.
    Okay, I didn't understand why you picked '00, but that makes some sense.

    People forget that the Bush tax cuts were justified to the public on the basis of projected budget surpluses. What on earth was the government going to do with all that excess cash?! Pay down the debt? Hah!

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    You obviously missed the part where I asked for a CREDIBLE source for your claims. Policy Innovations is a far left environmental organization and is obviously biased.
    The source (in bold) was VALERO, are you saying they lied to their investors about their plans for that oil? Someone should report them to the SEC....I think that's a felony.
    It really doesn't matter to you if the oil is all going to be exported, or that the pipeline for tar sand oil is far more dangerous then a normal crude line, or that it really won't lower prices for us a nickle either. What matters is that global big oil companies want it, so it must be good for us.....somehow. If we all think like that we won't find another source of energy until we use every expensive drop thay can squeeze out of the ground and US.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Okay, I didn't understand why you picked '00, but that makes some sense.

    People forget that the Bush tax cuts were justified to the public on the basis of projected budget surpluses. What on earth was the government going to do with all that excess cash?! Pay down the debt? Hah!
    They also forget the libertarian Greenspan didn't want the national debt paid down, because the Federal Reserve uses Treasuries as collateral for banks borrowing from it. I guess you can be against the Fed as a libertarian, if you don't work for it. Greenspan kept warning about "irrational exuberance" and when no one listened, he raised interest rates to pop the dot.com bubble and slow the economy. They also forget Bush managed to spend all that money, including two wars and had no jobs creation in his first term.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    They also forget the libertarian Greenspan didn't want the national debt paid down, because the Federal Reserve uses Treasuries as collateral for banks borrowing from it. I guess you can be against the Fed as a libertarian, if you don't work for it. Greenspan kept warning about "irrational exuberance" and when no one listened, he raised interest rates to pop the dot.com bubble and slow the economy. They also forget Bush managed to spend all that money, including two wars and had no jobs creation in his first term.
    That, and the majority of the job creation in his second term was in the financial and housing sectors, i.e. an illusion.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    You obviously missed the part where I asked for a CREDIBLE source for your claims. Policy Innovations is a far left environmental organization and is obviously biased.
    Here's the weekly export report for gasoline:

    Weekly U.S. Exports of Finished Motor Gasoline (Thousand Barrels per Day)

    Here's the weekly import report for gasoline:

    Weekly U.S. Imports of Finished Motor Gasoline (Thousand Barrels per Day)

    The gasoline export report only goes back to the 1st week of Jun, 2010, where we exported 155,000 barrels per day. In fact, we exported the same amount for 10 straight weeks and who knows what we exported before the report begins.

    Once the Keystone pipeline was completed and supplying those refineries in the plains, our exports increased. On the 2nd, 3rd and 4th week of Jan, 2012, we exported 626,000 barrels per day of gasoline.

    It used to be those gulf refineries supplied the plains area via the Mississippi and now they are exporting the gasoline to the Carribean market. The Keystone Pipeline only has a Maximum discharge of 0.59 Mbbl/d and you will notice it was routed through the oil discoveries in North Dakota and across the Canadian border.

    The Keystone XL Pipeline has two phases:

    Phase 3

    This phase, known as Cushing MarketLink, is part of the Keystone XL pipeline. This proposed phase would start from Cushing, Oklahoma where domestic oil would be added to the pipeline, then it would expand 435 miles (700 km) to a delivery point near terminals in Nederland, Texas to serve the Port Arthur, Texas marketplace.[1] Also proposed is an approximate 47 miles (76 km) previous pipeline to transport crude oil from the pipeline in Liberty County, Texas to the Houston, Texas area.[1][34]

    Domestic oil producers in the USA are pushing for this phase so the glut of oil can be distributed out of the large oil tank farms and distribution center in Cushing, Oklahoma. On November 16, 2011, Enbridge announced it is buying ConocoPhillips' 50% interest in the Seaway pipeline that flows from the Gulf of Mexico to the Cushing hub. In cooperation with Enterprise Products Partners LP it plans to reverse the Seaway pipeline so that an oversupply of oil at Cushing could reach the Gulf.[35] This project will replace the earlier proposed alternative Wrangler pipeline project from Cushing to the Gulf Coast.[35][36] However, according to industries, the Seaway line alone is not enough for oil transportation to the Gulf Coast.[37]

    Phase 4

    This phase is part of the Keystone XL pipeline and would start from the same area in Alberta, Canada as the main pipeline.[10] The Canadian section would consist of 529 kilometres (329 mi) of new pipeline.[12] It would enter the United States at Morgan, Montana and travel through Baker, Montana where domestic oil would be added to the pipeline, then it would travel through South Dakota and Nebraska, where it would join the existing Keystone pipelines at Steele City, Nebraska.[1] This phase has generated the greatest controversy because of its routing over the top of the Ogallala Aquifer in Nebraska.[38]
    Source: Keystone Pipeline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Now, they want to take a direct route and not follow the old route.



    In my opinion, the oil companies are taking the Carribean market away from Venezuela crude and it's obvious, they are already at or near the capacity of the existing Keystone Pipeline. There are other pipeline proposals to relieve the oil glut in Cushing, Oklahoma, but the interest is to add more Canadian tar sands to the gulf refineries. These pipelines don't have the capacity to supply enough exports to drive down worldwide crude prices, but they could hurt the Venezuelan market.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    This should make it clear to everyone what you're doing with your time when you try to have a rational discussion with the right -- wasting it.
    I'll save your post for the next time you complain about someone's source.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    At this point in the thread, TransCanada's "20,000 jobs" claim has been clearly debunked. Yet, as we see above, some have missed that boat.

    So, Gill, it is not anyone's opinion that TransCanada issues incorrect news releases, it is fact.
    Gotcha........ because you don't trust TransCanada as a source, you also don't believe the Governor's office or the dozens of other sources for this information ???


    Why the hell do you think the State Department declared that a new review of the pipeline was needed ????? The State Department had already approved the pipeline route though the Sand Hills area !!! Do you also not believe the State Department ????

    The ignorance of some posts in astounding.............and THAT'S A FACT !

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The source (in bold) was VALERO, are you saying they lied to their investors about their plans for that oil? Someone should report them to the SEC....I think that's a felony.
    It really doesn't matter to you if the oil is all going to be exported, or that the pipeline for tar sand oil is far more dangerous then a normal crude line, or that it really won't lower prices for us a nickle either. What matters is that global big oil companies want it, so it must be good for us.....somehow. If we all think like that we won't find another source of energy until we use every expensive drop thay can squeeze out of the ground and US.
    And yet your link is only to a liberal environmental group called Policy Innovations. Did you mistype the link or fail to put a link to Valero claiming what you think ??

    I think, and I believe most Americans agree, that the more oil on the market, the better for all of us. Obama will be hammered on this for the next 10 months.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    In my opinion,
    We can stop here, because that's all you have.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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