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Thread: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Guess you didn't see the CBO report that just came out:

    Had that portion of the decline in the labor force participation rate since 2007 that is attributable to neither the aging of the baby boomers nor the downturn in the business cycle (on the basis of the experience in previous downturns) not occurred, the unemployment rate in the fourth quarter of 2011 would have been about 1 percentage points higher than the actual rate of 8.7 percent

    Congressional Budget Office - The Budget and Economic Outlook: Fiscal Years 2012 to 2022


    Yeah, I know.........Obama has been the greatest president in history. I prefer to take him up on his offer to be a one-term president if he doesn't improve the economy.
    You can't change the methodology of calculating the unemployment rate for one period and not the other just to suit your argument. Not if you want to be taken seriously, anyway.

    Now, maybe you want to look at the U-6 unemployment rate, which includes frustrated workers. In February of 2009 -- Obama's first full month -- it was 15.1%. Last month it was 15.2%.
    Last edited by AdamT; 02-01-12 at 02:37 PM.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You can't change the methodology of calculating the unemployment rate for one period and not the other just to suit your argument. Not if you want to be taken seriously, anyway.
    They were comparing apples to apples.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    They were comparing apples to apples.
    To be honest, I don't know what they're comparing. They're talking about a decline in the labor participation rate that's neither attributable to retirement nor the bad economy. So what do they attribute it to? And why does taking that mystery drop into consideration make that rate more "real" than the actual rate?

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    To be honest, I don't know what they're comparing. They're talking about a decline in the labor participation rate that's neither attributable to retirement nor the bad economy. So what do they attribute it to? And why does taking that mystery drop into consideration make that rate more "real" than the actual rate?
    My guess is that they are relating it to early retirements due to people giving up on finding jobs. It is very confusing how they worded it, which was probably their intent.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Refine it into a thousand different products.
    Mostly gasoline and ALL of it destined for export. We already export 400,000+ barrels of it a day. How much pollution from refining oil for other countries should we have? How many chlorinated hydrocarbon induced cancer deaths are OK with you so Canada can sell it's "dirty" oil to other countries? Let them take the risks on their soil.

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The United States is awash in gasoline. So much so, in fact, that the country is exporting a record amount of it.
    The country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. That is about twice the amount at the start of the year, and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
    The United States began exporting gas in late 2008. For decades prior, starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
    But demand for gas has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6 million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to the EIA.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 02-01-12 at 03:25 PM.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    To be honest, I don't know what they're comparing. They're talking about a decline in the labor participation rate that's neither attributable to retirement nor the bad economy. So what do they attribute it to? And why does taking that mystery drop into consideration make that rate more "real" than the actual rate?
    If you want to get a good estimate of unemployment, compare 2010 data to 2000.

    http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat1.pdf

    The last column are the figures for Not in Labor Force. Since 2000 only had 4.0% unemployment and low unemployment for prior years, it isn't going to get much better than that. 2000 was a census years, so not only can the change for Not in Labor Force be calculated based on what they call 4% full employment, but the census data can be used to correct the difference in the amount of the population over 65. This give a good estimate of the people not counted in the unemployment statistic who will return to the labor force, when times are good.

    The census also publishes data for yearly estimates, so the 2010 data can be updated to 2011 and minor monthly changes can be estimated, just based on changes of the 65 and over population, which are quite small.

    The corrections are more accurate than the figures supplied by BLS. You can check how BLS U3 and U6 data compares and see how your calculated U6, based on 2000 stands up.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Mostly gasoline and ALL of it destined for export. We already export 400,000+ barrels of it a day. How much pollution from refining oil for other countries should we have? How many chlorinated hydrocarbon induced cancer deaths are OK with you so Canada can sell it's "dirty" oil to other countries? Let them take the risks on their soil.

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The United States is awash in gasoline. So much so, in fact, that the country is exporting a record amount of it.
    The country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. That is about twice the amount at the start of the year, and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
    The United States began exporting gas in late 2008. For decades prior, starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
    But demand for gas has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6 million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to the EIA.
    I keep seeing claims that it will be exported, but have yet to see any credible proof offered. I've asked several others, now it's your turn.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    If you want to get a good estimate of unemployment, compare 2010 data to 2000.

    http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat1.pdf

    The last column are the figures for Not in Labor Force. Since 2000 only had 4.0% unemployment and low unemployment for prior years, it isn't going to get much better than that. 2000 was a census years, so not only can the change for Not in Labor Force be calculated based on what they call 4% full employment, but the census data can be used to correct the difference in the amount of the population over 65. This give a good estimate of the people not counted in the unemployment statistic who will return to the labor force, when times are good.

    The census also publishes data for yearly estimates, so the 2010 data can be updated to 2011 and minor monthly changes can be estimated, just based on changes of the 65 and over population, which are quite small.

    The corrections are more accurate than the figures supplied by BLS. You can check how BLS U3 and U6 data compares and see how your calculated U6, based on 2000 stands up.
    That's actually not a very good comparison at all, as 2000 was right at the height of the dotcom bubble, which boosted the economy and employment.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Mostly gasoline and ALL of it destined for export. We already export 400,000+ barrels of it a day. How much pollution from refining oil for other countries should we have? How many chlorinated hydrocarbon induced cancer deaths are OK with you so Canada can sell it's "dirty" oil to other countries? Let them take the risks on their soil.

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The United States is awash in gasoline. So much so, in fact, that the country is exporting a record amount of it.
    The country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. That is about twice the amount at the start of the year, and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
    The United States began exporting gas in late 2008. For decades prior, starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
    But demand for gas has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6 million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to the EIA.
    U.S. Imports & Exports

    For the week of 1/27/12, the U.S. imported 214,000 of finished motor gasoline and exported 626,000, meaning we exported 412,000 more than we imported. The weekly reports for the import data go all the way back to 1994 and the reports for the export data go back to 2010.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    The comment is self evident (there are two, actually). However, if I were trolling, you shouldn't bite on the hook
    Hackery. Show how your comments are "self-evident." Only logical axioms are self-evident.

    Logical axioms are usually statements that are taken to be universally true (e.g., (A and B) implies A), while non-logical axioms (e.g., a + b = b + a) are actually defining properties for the domain of a specific mathematical theory (such as arithmetic). When used in the latter sense, "axiom," "postulate", and "assumption" may be used interchangeably. In general, a non-logical axiom is not a self-evident truth, but rather a formal logical expression used in deduction to build a mathematical theory. To axiomatize a system of knowledge is to show that its claims can be derived from a small, well-understood set of sentences (the axioms). There are typically multiple ways to axiomatize a given mathematical domain.
    Axiom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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