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Thread: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    I am not "talking down" to anyone...that you feel I am says more about you than it does about me. I will note however, that you have avoided any actual debate on the information I have provided. In most circles, this constitutes winning. Deny it and we may continue.
    I am just not sure that someone that was immediately so intentionally dishonest in their argument deserves my time....Do you Tec? Offer an argument where you have facts, and not enviro whacko junk, and we can absolutely move forward.


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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac, replying to another View Post
    [...] Now, I can only speculate that he found the same information, and the supposed disastrous spill he was trying to pin on TransCanada was 300 cubic yards of displacement. Anyone that has been in anything aggregate knows that equals about three tri axle dump trucks, a bucket loader, and reclamation crew about one day to clean up. Maybe that is why he tried to pull this fast one.
    A spill is a spill... trying to accuse others of duplicity does not obviate that fact. Here are some more:

    For a year now, Marshall, Michigan, has resembled a town under siege. [...] It’s been like this since last July 25 [2010], when more than 800,000 gallons of crude spilled from a pipeline into a creek that feeds the Kalamazoo River, about 100 miles upriver from Lake Michigan. The EPA ranks it as the largest spill in Midwestern history, but even so, officials say that oil from a typical disaster of that size would have been cleaned up long ago: skimmed, soaked, and vacuumed from the surface.

    But this was no typical oil spill. The pipeline owned by the Canadian company Enbridge carried mostly heavy, viscous crude from tar sands fields in Alberta, Canada, bound for Midwestern refineries. Raw tar sands oil, or bitumen, is so thick that it has to be mixed with a thinning compound, or diluent -- a highly volatile derivative of natural gas that includes large amounts of benzene and other toxic chemicals -- in order to make it liquid enough to pump through pipelines. When that combination, known as DilBit, spilled out of the ruptured pipeline, the benzene and other chemicals in the mixture went airborne, forcing mandatory evacuations of surrounding homes (many of which were later bought by Enbridge because their owners couldn’t safely return), while the thick, heavy bitumen sank into the water column and coated the river and lake bottom, mixing with sediment and suffocating bottom-dwelling plants, animals, and micro-organisms.

    A Year After Pipeline Spill, Tar Sands Oil Still Plagues a Michigan Community | OnEarth Magazine
    [Reuters Jul 14, 2011] An Exxon Mobil pipeline that ruptured, leaking [42,000 gallons of] oil into Yellowstone River, may have sometimes carried a heavier and more toxic form of crude than initially thought, federal regulators said on Thursday. The U.S. Transportation Department's Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration spokeswoman Patricia Klinger said her office had learned that the pipeline may have been used to carry heavier crude.

    "I just found out that apparently, and the regional folks just found out, there is an interconnect on the pipeline that possibly does carry some oil out of Canada," she said in response to a question about tar sands crude in the pipeline. [...] Tar sands crude may cause more wear and tear on pipes because of its chemical makeup, including corrosive and abrasive agents, said Tom Finch, the pipeline administration's technical services director for the western regional office.

    Montana spill pipeline may have carried oil sands crude | Reuters
    Last edited by Karl; 01-31-12 at 09:18 PM.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I am just not sure that someone that was immediately so intentionally dishonest in their argument deserves my time....Do you Tec? Offer an argument where you have facts, and not enviro whacko junk, and we can absolutely move forward.


    j-mac
    Obviously, if you believe me to be dishonest there is no reason to continue...(though if you look at my posts they contain primarily verified data from multiple sources, making the dishonesty claim rather impotent). As for "deserving your time", I doubt I ever will in your mind, which is totally acceptable to me. By attempting (poorly), to seem more competent than your opponent through arbitrary degradation that carries no weight in the minds of thinking people you literally destroy your own credibility just by typing.

    If you truly wish to continue however, might I suggest you address the Data I provided above....oh, and I type the words I think, even if it rubs you the wrong way.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac, replying to another View Post
    [...] The point is that these workers are not individual contractors. Many if not all are employed by companies that are in business doing many different facets of construction, and likely would increase employment with a project like this, and work contracts. When those contracts are done, they constantly build their base to either maintain the business, or replace finished jobs.
    Which means there may be no new jobs at all... it may simply be a contractor moving from his last job to his new job -- the Keystone XL -- then moving on to another job, all with the same workforce.

    No. New. Jobs. At. All.

    Thanks for providing that insight

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    People can handle change all right. It's just the corruption and scandal within the government regarding these enterprises where many get concerned and legitimately angry.

    The government will often get into these programs, such as controlling population, saving trees, curbing global resources or funding new sources of energy, and use fear and shame to accomplish their ends. The ends are raiding the public purse.

    They will easily claim that their mission is to save humanity in any number of ways but, as usual, it's all about money and power.

    Let creative entrepreneurs risk their money, and there are many prepared to do that. But the politicians - and this really shouldn't need restating - are often dishonest. Yet despite this overwhelming evidence against them there are still those who give them credence. It is a mystery why this is so, but it was ever thus.
    I won't rattle around about corruption, it happens, it will continue to happen, and there's little we can do about it. (This happens on both sides of the aisle.) I also loathe politicians using ANY emotional argument but also realize most people don't listen to reason leaving them little choice for persuasion.

    I think if we don't get into solar manufacturing now, we'll be buying panels from China for a very long time.

    Historically a lot of new technologies have come from government spending. WWII, Vietnam, the Cold War, and the Space Race created new technologies with spin-offs we never would have imagined. Corporations are great at taking an existing market and making better products but a huge number of new markets have been opened by gadgets the government needed and developed. Planes/jets, helicopters, nuclear power, and tons of stuff from NASA:

    NASA - Technologies Available for Licensing
    THE BEST OF NASA'S SPINOFFS

    Even modern toothpaste was developed for NASA - the astronauts needed something they could ingest.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I think if we don't get into solar manufacturing now, we'll be buying panels from China for a very long time.
    And where is the harm in that? Let China spend their trillions developing the technology and then Americans, or whomever, can improve on it.

    That's what has been happing with technology forever, and it is not a bad thing. There us no shame in letting others develop first and then building on that. And it would be interesting to see China complain about any 'piracy' as a result of others copying their advancements.
    Even modern toothpaste was developed for NASA - the astronauts needed something they could ingest.
    NASA should be auctioned off. There is no longer any need for its existence.
    2011 preview: Private space flight takes off - space - 23 December 2010 - New Scientist

    NASA has trivialized itself to such a degree from what it once was that it will never recover.

    NASA Chief: Next Frontier Better Relations With Muslim World | Fox News

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    Uh....this, for one:
    The Ogallala Aquifer occupies the High Plains of the United States, extending northward from western Texas to South Dakota. The Ogallala is the leading geologic formation in what is known as the High Plains Aquifer System. The entire system underlies about 450,000 square kilometers (174,000 square miles) of eight states. Although there are several other minor geologic formations in the High Plains Aquifer System, such as the Tertiary Brule and Arikaree and the Dakota formations of the Cretaceous, these several units are often referred to as the Ogallala Aquifer.


    Seriously dude, are you incapable or just unwilling to do any research ??? The pipeline was moved away from the Ogallala Aquifer last November.

    Non-issue.


    Seriously dude, are you incapable of research, or simply unwilling.

    "The first Keystone tar sands pipeline, constructed less than a year ago, has sprung its twelfth leak, spilling up to 2,100 gallons of raw tar sands crude oil in Kansas on May 29th when a pipeline fitting around a pressure transmitter failed. This comes just three weeks after a broken pipe fitting on Keystone resulted in a 60 geyser of tar sands crude, spewing 21,000 gallons in North Dakota. "
    Seriously dude.........you're going to have to do better than a blog.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    They aren't going to put chunks of this bitumen in rail cars....... that's propaganda.
    Why would they put "chunks" of bitumen in the rail cars ???? They will be putting liquid bitumen in them, the same stuff that would have been flowing through the pipeline.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    What do you think would happen to the oil when it reached the Gulf Coast? Are they going to use it all in Biloxi?
    Refine it into a thousand different products.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Seriously dude, are you incapable or just unwilling to do any research ??? The pipeline was moved away from the Ogallala Aquifer last November.

    Non-issue.
    I would recommend you look at the TransCanada website...then attempt to state the above again.
    Keystone Pipeline Map




    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Seriously dude.........you're going to have to do better than a blog.
    I take it you decided not to read the information because it says "Blog" in the link, perhaps you might actually open it?

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