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Thread: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    Impossible? You've been reading too many right-wing blogs.

    We are shutting down oil refineries, because there is too much capacity and existing refineries can produce much more product than they do. The need for additional refineries is a right-wing lie started during the last boom in oil prices. The source to look for is the Weekly Energy Report.

    weekly energy report - Bing

    U.S. Weekly Inputs & Utilization
    You sure about that or are you repeating a left wing lie ???

    Though oil refinery productivity in the United States has been improving, the number of operating refineries has been dropping steadily. In 1982, the earliest year for which the Energy Information Administration has data, there were 301 operable refineries in the U.S., and they produced about 17.9 million barrels of oil per day. Today there are only 149 refineries, but they're producing 17.4 million barrels – less than in 1982, but more than any year since then. The increase in efficiency is impressive, but it's not enough to meet demand: U.S. oil consumption is 20.7 million barrels per day. Refinery capacity isn't the only factor in the price of gasoline, and according to the EIA it's not the most important one either (that would be the cost of crude oil), but it's certainly a contributor.

    Existing refineries have been running at or near full capacity since the mid-1990s, but are failing to meet daily consumption demands. Yet there hasn't been a new refinery built in the U.S. since 1976. Why? Several factors: Building a refinery is expensive, there are a lot of environmental restrictions on where and how they can be built and nobody wants to live near one. One company, Arizona Clean Fuels, has been trying to construct a refinery in the Southwest since 1998. Getting a permit to build took seven years, and the company twice changed the plant's proposed location because of environmental restrictions and land disputes. The refinery is projected to have a $3.7 billion total price tag. The EIA recorded per-barrel profits of $5.29 in 2006; at that rate, the 150,000-barrel-per-day refinery would need to operate for almost 13 years before its profits outweighed the cost of building it.

    In short, the reason for not adding more refineries is straightforward: It's hard, and it's expensive. The reason that we have so few in the first place is more complicated. In the 1980s and 1990s, there was a surplus of refining capacity. Then, over the course of two decades, half of the plants shut down. In 2001, Oregon senator Ron Wyden presented to Congress a report arguing that these closings were calculated choices intended to increase oil company profits. Fewer refineries means less product in circulation, which means a lower supply-to-demand ratio and more profit. Wyden's report cites internal memos from the oil industry implying that this reduction was a deliberate attempt to curtail profit losses.
    FactCheck.org : U.S. Oil Refining Capability
    Last edited by Gill; 01-31-12 at 09:42 AM.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    Impossible? You've been reading too many right-wing blogs.

    We are shutting down oil refineries, because there is too much capacity and existing refineries can produce much more product than they do. The need for additional refineries is a right-wing lie started during the last boom in oil prices. The source to look for is the Weekly Energy Report.

    weekly energy report - Bing

    U.S. Weekly Inputs & Utilization



    That would be impossible, unless Prof. Peabody would lend us his WABAC Machine. The project that was rejected for future study was the Keystone XL project. The Keystone Pipeline already exists.



    Source: Keystone Pipeline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The purple are the existing Keystone pipelines. The reason they want to go to the gulf is because that's where many of the oil refineries are in Texas.

    That's great news that the US is now energy independent. Perhaps there need be no more screw-ups like Solyndra and the US can go with what it has.

    There was far too much crony capitalism going on in the energy industry, as well as many others, but this oil independence going well into the foreseeable future will go a long way go a long way in returning America to its former greatness.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    You sure about that or are you repeating a left wing lie ???



    FactCheck.org : U.S. Oil Refining Capability
    Your fact check is three years old -- when oil use was considerably higher than it is now. Last year our number one export was what? Refined fuel. As the current figures Gary posted show, we presently have about 15% excess capacity, even though we are exporting a **** ton of refined product.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Your fact check is three years old -- when oil use was considerably higher than it is now. Last year our number one export was what? Refined fuel. As the current figures Gary posted show, we presently have about 15% excess capacity, even though we are exporting a **** ton of refined product.
    Ahhh, so you believe the recession will continue resulting in continued depressed oil usage ?? You might be correct if Obama gets reelected.

    Oil is a major export of Canada too, but they also import almost as much.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Ahhh, so you believe the recession will continue resulting in continued depressed oil usage ?? You might be correct if Obama gets reelected.

    Oil is a major export of Canada too, but they also import almost as much.
    I think that our reduced consumption isn't entirely the result of the recession, though it certainly accounts for a lot of it. It also has to do with more efficient cars and trucks and other energy saving measures. And with CAFE standards rising, that should help offset increased demand from the rebounding economy. But the bottom line is that we need to reduce our reliance on oil -- not increase our capacity to use more.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    You sure about that or are you repeating a left wing lie ???



    FactCheck.org : U.S. Oil Refining Capability
    I've worked in oil refineries. An oil refinery has to keep things flowing whether they have a lot of demand or not. Nearly all existing refineries can build to increase production, if it was needed. You can buy an oil refinery much cheaper than you can build one and many large ones have been shut down lately, like two in the Phily area, such as Sunoco and Conoco.

    New Jersey

    Bayway Refinery (ConocoPhillips), Linden 230,000 bbl/d (37,000 m3/d)
    Eagle Point Refinery (Sunoco), Westville closed 2010 145,000 bbl/d (23,100 m3/d)
    Paulsboro Asphalt Refinery (NuStar), Paulsboro 51,000 bbl/d (8,100 m3/d)
    Paulsboro Refinery (PBF Energy Corporation), Paulsboro 160,000 bbl/d (25,000 m3/d)
    Perth Amboy Refinery (Chevron), Perth Amboy 80,000 bbl/d (13,000 m3/d)
    Port Reading Refinery (Hess), Port Reading 62,000 bbl/d (9,900 m3/d)

    Pennsylvania

    Bradford Refinery (American Refining Group), Bradford 10,000 bbl/d (1,600 m3/d)
    Marcus Hook Refinery (Sunoco), Marcus Hook idled 175,000 bbl/d (27,800 m3/d)
    Philadelphia Refinery (Sunoco), Philadelphia 335,000 bbl/d (53,300 m3/d)
    Penreco (Calumet), Karns City
    Trainer Refinery (ConocoPhillips), Trainer idled 185,000 bbl/d (29,400 m3/d)
    Warren Refinery, United Refining Company, Warren 70,000 bbl/d (11,000 m3/d)
    Wamsutta Oil Refinery (historical), McClintocksville
    Source: List of oil refineries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    What does idled and closed mean?

    You can get a history of refinery utilization from the EIA and I follow it for the stock market.

    Worry about spreading your own lies by what you choose to post!
    Last edited by Gary; 01-31-12 at 12:13 PM.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I think that our reduced consumption isn't entirely the result of the recession, though it certainly accounts for a lot of it. It also has to do with more efficient cars and trucks and other energy saving measures. And with CAFE standards rising, that should help offset increased demand from the rebounding economy. But the bottom line is that we need to reduce our reliance on oil -- not increase our capacity to use more.
    I'm sure we will reduce our reliance on oil, just as soon as we find a reliable substitute to propel trucks, cars, aircraft, farm equipment, and manufacture plastics, polymers, elastomers, fibers, clothing, propane for rural residents, oil, grease, wax, asphalt road mixes, carbon products, roofing, sulfer, hundreds of chemicals, etc., etc, etc., etc.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That's great news that the US is now energy independent. Perhaps there need be no more screw-ups like Solyndra and the US can go with what it has.

    There was far too much crony capitalism going on in the energy industry, as well as many others, but this oil independence going well into the foreseeable future will go a long way go a long way in returning America to its former greatness.
    What it has is foreign oil and stupid people wanting to give oil companies more oil on public lands for the price of a lease.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    I've worked in oil refineries. An oil refinery has to keep things flowing whether they have a lot of demand or not. Nearly all existing refineries can build to increase production, if it was needed. You can buy an oil refinery much cheaper than you can build one and many large ones have been shut down lately, like two in the Phily area, such as Sunoco and Conoco.



    Source: List of oil refineries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    What does idled and closed mean?

    You can get a history of refinery utilization from the EIA and I follow it for the stock market.

    Worry about spreading your own lies by what you choose to post!
    I thought you libs loved to quote FactCheck. Guess that's only when it proves some leftwing point. When it proves your lies, it is unreliable.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    What it has is foreign oil and stupid people wanting to give oil companies more oil on public lands for the price of a lease.
    Or.... stupid people giving money to "pie in the sky" green companies that take million of taxpayer dollars and provide nothing to value. They give hundreds of thousands in bonus money to their executives, campaign money to their political sponsors, then close shop leaving their employees and the taxpayers with nothing.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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