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Thread: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

  1. #31
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    My point is they COULD do that.
    They could have, but chose not to.They gave property owners the middle finger and try to extort into selling. For that I do not want them being allowed to build anything in the US.
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    The question I have is, why would land that already has thousands of miles of pipeline on it, be so environmentally sensitive?

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  3. #33
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    They could have, but chose not to.They gave property owners the middle finger and try to extort into selling. For that I do not want them being allowed to build anything in the US.
    I agree it's sad and there's not many things I hate more than eminent domain. It's a cancer of power. It's a shame people in government don't see it that way though.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  4. #34
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    Right, because shipping the oil overseas is better for the environment. Just because the fringe left in America doesn't want jobs doesn't mean Canada won't still drill, pipe, and now ship the oil. The only thing shutting this project down does is prevent jobs from coming to America.

    Oh, and it gives Republicans a fantastic talking point going into the general election.
    You know, if jamesrage does not like the Keystone pipeline, then there must be something wrong with it. He is far right, but you know what? He researched the deal, and did not allow himself to be brainwashed by Republican talking points. It is this quality in jamesrage that makes him one of the most credible members of Debate Politics, and I have always had a lot of respect for him, even if I don't always agree with him. He is honest, and shoots from the hip.

    For me, here is the deal:

    1) I am not against the pipeline. I am actually in favor of it. However, in planning the route the pipeline is to take, you must follow the rules, and make an impact study. It has been this way for decades. What Republicans did was to make an impact study impossible, then to accuse Obama of being anti-energy. It was their plan all along, and it was transparent.

    2) The correct solution would be to allow the impact study to occur, and plan the pipeline with that impact study as a guide. Obama said that the corporation can apply for the pipeline again, if they are willing to play by the rules, which means giving enough time for an impact study to be completed. This is the correct way to go.

    3) There is also the point that jamesrage brought up, which is using the legal system to bully the little guy. Why can't it run the pipeline AROUND the property of the owners who don't want to sell their land off? Surely, their must be a solution, or even a compromise, someplace. But the corporation doesn't want to compromise. They believe that they can do whatever the hell they want, and the people affected can go jump in a lake. I have one word for this - Unmitigated arrogance. OK, OK, make that two words.

    Bottom line is that I believe a pipeline from the tar sands to Houston would be a great thing, but let's not bully property owners to get it done, and let's play by the rules, and have that impact study, and make plans with the results of that study in mind. Finally, let us not break the rules, and then attempt to pin the blame on others, in an attempt to get political gain out of it. What is more important? Political hackery or America? You be the judge.
    Last edited by danarhea; 01-19-12 at 12:09 AM.
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnukingfutz View Post
    Instead, he passified the environmentalist tree huggers for this election but pissed off the unions, who will support him regardless, he already paid them off with the Porkulus Bill.

    The funniest thing is Obama said that extending unemployment benefits will create MORE jobs than the pipeline would have....

    Obama: More jobs in jobless benefits than Keystone | Campaign 2012 |
    Washington Examiner



    Excuse me if I seem a little confused on this, but how is extending a payroll tax cut and extending unemployment benefits creating jobs?

    The payroll tax cut is a 2% relief from payroll deductions NOT from the tax burden. They are only taking 2% less out of your check towards your income tax bill, not relieving you from the tax burden of those taxes, the full amount is still due when you file your return. For the average $400 a week paycheck, thats about $8 per week. Major job creator there huh?

    Extending unemployment benefits is a job creator? How many job offers from unemployed people have you gotten? Dont know about you, but if my prospective employer was collecting unemployment, I would be worried.
    You are forgetting that spending=growth and the money from unemployment benefit and the payroll cut are 100% SPENT. That's what creates or saves jobs... spending money in the economy.

    The real estimates for jobs from the pipeline are 4500 to 5000 temporary contruction jobs, the steel is already purchased from a Russian Steel firm in Canada, the states don't want it, it's a enviromental disaster in the making and worst of all..... ALL THE OIL FROM THE PIPELINE IS GOING TO BE EXPORTED. Much of it after it has been refined into gasoline, polluting our air and not doing a thing for gas prices.
    May it rest in peace.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 01-19-12 at 12:18 AM.

  6. #36
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Bottom line is that I believe a pipeline from the tar sands to Houston would be a great thing, but let's not bully property owners to get it done, and let's play by the rules, and have that impact study, and make plans with the results of that study in mind. Finally, let us not break the rules, and then attempt to pin the blame on others, in an attempt to get political gain out of it. What is more important? Political hackery or America? You be the judge.
    I think you totally nailed this one. I've been reading a lot about this and I think the pipeline, overall, is a good thing. Even if the real job count is just 5,000. But building it over an aquifer is just flat out dumb. So just build around it and the people who won't give up their land. Bodda bing bodda boom, problem solved. Put the political bull**** games away. We've got important things to accomplish (as a nation) and this sort of brinksmanship is slowing things down.
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    They could have, but chose not to.They gave property owners the middle finger and try to extort into selling. For that I do not want them being allowed to build anything in the US.
    The freaking pipe is only 48" in diameter and will be buried 4 feet underground. How much eminent domain will be taken ????

    When I was a kid, a similar pipe was built in the soybean field next to our house. The next year there were soybeans planted over it. It looked the same as it did before the pipe was installed.

    This will cost Obama at least 500,000 votes, so in one sense this was a good decision. In one fail swoop, he killed jobs, hurt our energy dependence, and pissed off our closest neighbor and ally.

    This on top of a new tariff he imposed on Canadians visiting the U.S. last month. The funniest part on the tariff is that he's blaming it on the the new free trade agreement with Columbia.

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  8. #38
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    I think you totally nailed this one. I've been reading a lot about this and I think the pipeline, overall, is a good thing. Even if the real job count is just 5,000. But building it over an aquifer is just flat out dumb. So just build around it and the people who won't give up their land. Bodda bing bodda boom, problem solved. Put the political bull**** games away. We've got important things to accomplish (as a nation) and this sort of brinksmanship is slowing things down.
    The state of Nebraska and TransCanada agreed to move the pipeline away from the aquifer back in November, so that is a non issue and has been for over two months. Nebraska was for the pipeline as long as it could be rerouted, which it was.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  9. #39
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    The freaking pipe is only 48" in diameter and will be buried 4 feet underground. How much eminent domain will be taken ????

    When I was a kid, a similar pipe was built in the soybean field next to our house. The next year there were soybeans planted over it. It looked the same as it did before the pipe was installed.

    This will cost Obama at least 500,000 votes, so in one sense this was a good decision. In one fail swoop, he killed jobs, hurt our energy dependence, and pissed off our closest neighbor and ally.

    This on top of a new tariff he imposed on Canadians visiting the U.S. last month. The funniest part on the tariff is that he's blaming it on the the new free trade agreement with Columbia.
    Usually utilities force land owners to sell a small portion of their land where it crosses or, they pay the land owner a flat fee for putting on their land, such things. My family farm had high tension electric lines going through it and the State came to my father and told him what they were going to do and he didn't want any part of it. When he said no, they told him he didn't have a choice and that they would pay him a certain amount of money for the loss of crops due to the dimensions of the tower and compensation for the trucks and workmen that had to come on his land and build the thing. I don't know how much he was paid but it wasn't much. Now I think that pretty much would have to happen here and if the pipeline had to go through someone's house, I don't see a reason why it couldn't go around the house. It's not like these pipelines aren't already everywhere in every state. Gas lines, water lines, pipelines, underground telephone, sewer lines.... common people... this is no big deal and no ecological travesty of any sort.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  10. #40
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    You guys should see the city this pipeline comes from. Thousands of brand new homes, no hotel rooms available for months, restaurants packed every night of the week. Now, that money is going to stay there. WTG Obama.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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