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Thread: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

  1. #261
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No, it's other things too. Supply and demand, refining capacity, etc. But the price of oil is pretty much always the same world wide. You can look up the prices of oil on the different commodity exchanges around the world and they're almost always exactly the same. When one gets a penny higher than the others, the market jumps on it.
    You hit the nail on the head though. Supply and demand. If we supply our own oil, we can set our own prices to an extent by offering incentives to oil producers to keep their oil within the US instead of exporting to other countries. By supplying our own, we lessen demand on outside nations which would then precipitate a drop in prices.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Didn't see anything about the fire being a danger to the underground pipeline. The reason it was shut down was that the fire cut off the electricity being used by the oil line pumps:

    Try again.
    Well dude, it really doesn't matter to me whether you believe me about forest fires being a danger for pipelines. It's true, but not really important either way, so it's not worth googling up for you more than I already have. If you're interested, definitely take a shot at googling it yourself.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    You hit the nail on the head though. Supply and demand. If we supply our own oil, we can set our own prices to an extent by offering incentives to oil producers to keep their oil within the US instead of exporting to other countries. By supplying our own, we lessen demand on outside nations which would then precipitate a drop in prices.
    No, that isn't how it works. If we tried to pressure some producers into selling here, the prices would just go up elsewhere, so then the other producers that currently sell here would go sell there and it would all even out. You can't manipulate prices in one part of a global market. You would need to either control the whole market or segregate us from the larger market.

    But, the supply and demand was about gas, not oil. Gas demand is pretty volatile, but supply is relatively fixed because we have a fixed number of refineries.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well dude, it really doesn't matter to me whether you believe me about forest fires being a danger for pipelines. It's true, but not really important either way, so it's not worth googling up for you more than I already have. If you're interested, definitely take a shot at googling it yourself.
    You'll pardon me if I don't take your word for it, since it defies logic that a pipe buried 4 feet underground could be damaged by a fast moving forest fire above it. Why do you think grass grows back so quickly after a fire.......it's because the roots are not damaged by the fire.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    You'll pardon me if I don't take your word for it, since it defies logic that a pipe buried 4 feet underground could be damaged by a fast moving forest fire above it. Why do you think grass grows back so quickly after a fire.......it's because the roots are not damaged by the fire.
    Sometimes that's true. There are forest fires that don't even burn the grass at all. But there are also forest fires that turn the soil into glass they are so hot.

    I'm telling you man, I saw it in a documentary about the pipeline. But, whatever, it doesn't matter either way. If you don't want to believe it, that's fine by me.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Supply is being controlled by the oil conglomerates. We have an abundance now but rather than sell it in the U.S. markets where your point of supply and demand would lower the costs, they are exporting oil and gas surpluses to keep prices artificially high. Increasing the supply is, for the most part, only going to increase exports. Sure, the price at the pump may decline a bit, but for the most part, all the Keystone pipeline will do is generate even more profit for the oil companies.
    I don't assign the smoking gun the same way you do. Furthermore, I would argue as I have that we do not have an abundance. We ship in way a lot more unprocessed crude than we ship out gasoline.

    And the keystone pipeline will not change our oil supply...however it will give us another spigot.
    Last edited by Blue_State; 01-23-12 at 04:00 PM.
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I don't assign the smoking gun the same way you do. Furthermore, I would argue as I have that we do not have an abundance. We ship in way a lot more unprocessed crude than we ship out gasoline.

    And the keystone pipeline will not change our oil supply...however it will give us another spigot.
    Not sure how an additional 900,000 barrels of oil a day won't change our oil supply.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Sometimes that's true. There are forest fires that don't even burn the grass at all. But there are also forest fires that turn the soil into glass they are so hot.

    I'm telling you man, I saw it in a documentary about the pipeline. But, whatever, it doesn't matter either way. If you don't want to believe it, that's fine by me.
    Sand turns to glass around 4,200 F.

    Are we to believe that burning wood gets to 4000F?

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Sand turns to glass around 4,200 F.

    Are we to believe that burning wood gets to 4000F?
    pssst..........don't confuse him with facts.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Sand turns to glass around 4,200 F.

    Are we to believe that burning wood gets to 4000F?
    A forest fire isn't like say wood burning in a fireplace. It's sometimes miles wide. There are huge drafts that concentrate heat at various points and whatnot. They can create what is called a "firestorm".

    A firestorm may be the most intense destructive force that nature can unleash. Nothing in man's fire fighting arsenal can stop them. Part forest fire, part cyclone and part napalm bomb, they can be miles wide and miles high. They generate enough heat to turn sand into glass and enough wind to pick up railroad cars.

    Peshtigo burns the same night as the Great Chicago Fire - only worse
    There is a spot up where I used to go canoeing when I was a kid where the ground was all glass-like because of a huge forest fire firestorm.

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