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Thread: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

  1. #141
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Like I said, my point went way over your head.
    Next time, actually make a point.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    I don't like what oil companies do to hold off alternative energy technology and I don't like how modern society is enslaved by it. But if we don't get more of it in here, until a transition occurs we're going to be walking everywhere or wondering why the trucks didn't bring food to the grocery markets.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    here's why

    jobs. 20,000 man years of employment. assuming that each job is valued at $50,000, the total payroll is $1 billion
    desirable but not all that significant, actually
    then divide that by the years to build it and the annual result will be found
    even less significant
    Pretty callous of you here...You should look into the eyes of the construction tradesman that just received his final notices for foreclosure, and doesn't know how to get some groceries for the family tonight. I am positive that your dismissal of the effects of his earning a paycheck will suffice.

    oil supply. the oil will become part of the world's oil supply. it will cost whatever the going rate for oil costs. it is estimated that this additional supply will potentially reduce the price of a barrel of oil by $1 ... about 1% of the present $100 per barrel price. we will be bidding for that oil just like china and every other oil importing nation. nothing confers a preference to the USA for that oil

    Estimated? by whom? Those opposed to this pipeline?

    TransCanada believes Keystone XL will ultimately be approved, as it is too important to the U.S. economy and its national interest. As well, Keystone XL remains the best option for producers to supply crude oil to U.S. Gulf Coast Refineries.
    The U.S. consumes 15 million barrels of oil each day and imports 10 to 11 million barrels per day. Industry forecasts predict oil consumption will continue at these levels for the next two to three decades, so a secure supply of crude oil is critical to U.S. energy security.
    Keystone XL is shovel-ready. TransCanada is poised to put 13,000 Americans to work to construct the pipeline - pipefitters, welders, mechanics, electricians, heavy equipment operators, among other jobs - in addition to 7,000 manufacturing jobs that would be created across the U.S. Additionally, local businesses along the pipeline route will benefit from the 118,000 spin-off jobs Keystone XL will create through increased business for local goods and service providers.
    TransCanada looks forward to concluding the U.S. regulatory review process and beginning the important work of building Keystone XL. The safe and reliable operation of our pipelines and infrastructure has been TransCanada's priority for 60 years. This same commitment will drive us forward in the years ahead.

    Keystone Pipeline Project
    union support. 20,000 man years of employment and nothing will compel all employees to be unionized. really think the union is going to support romney or santorum or gingrich instead of Obama. me either
    Hite was one of four union presidents, representing 2.6 million workers, who sent a letter in October to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton urging approval for the project. The Keystone XL is a $7 billion privately funded project that is expected to stimulate $20 billion in new spending for the U.S. economy, spur the creation of 118,000 jobs and generate more than $585 million in state and local taxes for the states along the pipeline route.

    Union Support For Keystone XL Pipeline Project | Pipeline News
    Unions are behind the pipeline.

    on the other hand there are issues of environmental impact. hence the need to follow the rules and not short cut to yes. this administration has not ruled out the possibility of approval of the project. it just refused to agree to a republican desired shortcut of the process

    the emissions from the processing of canadian tar sands in the USA will substantially elevate environmentally damaging emissions from their present levels. what is the cost to the USA of dealing with that, forever ... well at least the 300-500 years that these tar sands will be available

    the pipeline will at times be above aquifers. what is clean water worth to our kids
    This pipeline has been deemed safe...

    ALBERTA, Canada - The Keystone XL pipeline will be constructed and operated at a safety level beyond that of any existing crude oil pipeline in the United States, according to the recently released Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS).

    Nebraska state agencies, local officials, emergency responders and other stakeholders played a key role in helping to ensure the safest and most environmentally protective route was chosen and the pipeline would be built and operated in a safe and reliable manner, with a focus on protecting the Sand Hills and the Ogallala aquifer.

    "We have listened to Nebraskans and have utilized their input to ensure Keystone XL will be built to a safety level not seen before in a pipeline in the United States and that includes selecting the right route, which has been done," said Russ Girling, president and chief executive officer of TransCanada.

    Since 2008, the U.S. Department of State has been leading a comprehensive environmental review of all aspects of Keystone XL. The FEIS review was the most detailed and comprehensive environmental review ever undertaken for a cross border pipeline.

    In the FEIS, seven alternative routes were studied, including one potential alternative route in Nebraska that would have avoided the entire Sand Hills region and Ogallala aquifer, and six alternatives that would have reduced pipeline mileage crossing the Sand Hills or the aquifer. None of these seven alternatives were preferable to the proposed route as these alternatives would be longer than the proposed route and would disturb more land and cross more water bodies than the proposed route, according to the FEIS. The FEIS further determined these alternative routes would affect substantially more agricultural land, developed land, forested land, rangeland and wetlands.


    Keystone XL Route Through Nebraska Deemed Safest Choice
    Also:

    Taken as a whole, releases from pipelines cause few annual fatalities compared to other product
    transportation modes.

    www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/R41536.pdf
    Pipelines are among the safest ways in this country to transport oil.

    animal habitats may be adversely impacted
    they are a natural resource and we owe it to the next generations to be good stewards of those resources today

    lots of good reasons not to go to a quick yes. but tell us what your aptly described 'no brainer' answer would be
    Really? We are going to retreat back to the arguments of the Alaskan pipeline? Pipelines have no effect on animals, in fact due to their heat they may increase copulation of some species like we saw in Caribou.

    Further:

    The Ogallala or High Plains Aquifer underlies an area from South Dakota to Texas and is a significant source of water for drinking and irrigation. It is one of many treasured sources of water in the United States. Independent government analysis has concluded that a pipeline leak would not threaten the aquifer. Here are seven facts to help explain how this finding is consistent with the nature of the aquifer and other aspects of daily life.

    Today, nearly 25,000 miles of petroleum pipelines exist within the Ogallala Aquifer, including 2,000 miles in Nebraska. These pipelines transport about 730,000,000,000 barrels of crude oil across the aquifer – each year, including nearly 100,000,000 barrels of crude oil transported across the aquifer in Nebraska. After this oil is refined into gasoline, diesel fuel, aviation gas and other products, pipelines transport much of it back across the aquifer for use on Nebraska farms, ranches and roads.

    The Ogallala Aquifer | Nebraska | Keystone XL Pipeline
    The argument about this being a danger is almost at the point of laughable.

    i hope all of the folks who want this to proceed immediately will give me an easement across their real property sufficient to allow a 48 inch pipeline to be placed across it in perpetuity, which easement will prevent the owners' ability to ever situate any form of improvement on such property by them or their assigns. it's only fair. that is what you are willing to subject other Americans to accept
    Eminent domain doesn't seem to be on the liberal radar when it is about taking someones home to build a higher taxation property. But then again, that goes along with bigger government sooooo...

    j-mac
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  4. #144
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    ok, show us any factual information which would allow us to find your conclusion credible
    Well, the Obama administration said they were delaying considering approval to an unspecified future date. That would seem to at least indicate "delay."

    The Obama administration is way in too much in bed with Wall Street and the money people to ever approve any domestic oil or gas production. Brokering foreign oil importation via tankers and futures speculation on oil futures is vastly lucrative no-effort money worth billions. Obama WILL protect the inside traders and middlemen in oil sales and futures.

    Environmentalists are just being played like easy chumps over this. Tankers are the most environmentally dangerous and destructive means to transport oil. Yet they are protesting on behalf of super-tanker ships. Amazing.

    At least protestors should be chanting accurately: "MORE SUPER TANKERS! MORE SUPER TANKERS!!"
    Last edited by joko104; 01-20-12 at 04:32 PM.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    …jobs. 20,000 man years of employment. assuming that each job is valued at $50,000, the total payroll is $1 billion
    And let’s not forget the $250 BILLION in tax revenues (based on an all-inclusive 25.1% EFFECTIVE tax rate on +/-$40k/yr. earners which includes all federal, state & local taxes personal and corporate income, payroll, property, sales, excise, estate etc. http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2011.pdf). Certainly not significant…only 20% or so of the national debt.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    You realize this project was proposed in 2008?
    You realize that the project has gone through the NEPA process?
    Where was the objections at the start of the proposal, or even by the President during the NEPA process?
    Buying American steel would be better.

    Do you realize that the route was changed at Nebraska's request a few months ago?
    That the project has to go through a new study for the new route?
    Why don't you ask Bush why he didn't request American steel since it was his administration that was in charge n 2008
    Last edited by iguanaman; 01-20-12 at 05:08 PM.

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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Do you realize that the route was changed at Nebraska's request a few months ago?
    That the project has to go through a new study for the new route?
    Why don't you ask Bush why he didn't request American steel since it was his administration that was in charge n 2008

    The route didn't need to be changed. This was a political delaying tactic to throw red meat to Obama's base voter block....Americans as they pay over $3.50 per gallon should be enraged.

    j-mac
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Well, the Obama administration said they were delaying considering approval to an unspecified future date. That would seem to at least indicate "delay."

    The Obama administration is way in too much in bed with Wall Street and the money people to ever approve any domestic oil or gas production. Brokering foreign oil importation via tankers and futures speculation on oil futures is vastly lucrative no-effort money worth billions. Obama WILL protect the inside traders and middlemen in oil sales and futures.

    Environmentalists are just being played like easy chumps over this. Tankers are the most environmentally dangerous and destructive means to transport oil. Yet they are protesting on behalf of super-tanker ships. Amazing.

    At least protestors should be chanting accurately: "MORE SUPER TANKERS! MORE SUPER TANKERS!!"
    The oil from that pipeline wil be loaded onto "super tankers" for export so you make no sense at all.
    No to mention that domestice oil production is up 11% since Obama took office ending 8 years of diminishng production under that "oil man" Bush. Again you make no sense or you are talking nonsense take your pick.


  9. #149
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill, replying to another View Post
    Yeah, no problem.........screw all the construction jobs, restaurant jobs, hotel jobs, supply jobs, refinery jobs, welder jobs, support industry jobs, shipping jobs, etc, etc, etc. [...]
    You forgot the bars. And the hookers.

    But do illuminate us on how many restaurants and hotels are going to be built to support a, what, 3-year pipeline construction job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill, replying to another View Post
    Not to mention, China needs the oil more than us, right ???
    Oil. Is. Fungible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill, replying to another View Post
    We can get all we need from the middle east.
    Indeed we can. It would be much cleaner oil as well. But wouldn't it be smarter to reduce our oil consumption by, say, 5%?

  10. #150
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    Re: Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The route didn't need to be changed. This was a political delaying tactic to throw red meat to Obama's base voter block....Americans as they pay over $3.50 per gallon should be enraged.
    Is it guaranteed that the oil (after being refined) would flow into American gas tanks?

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