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Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected

Dpetty said:
[...] There is nothing REQUIRING us to sell our own oil, to ourselves, at global prices. It is our oil after all. [...]
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No, it is not "our" oil. It belongs to whatever oil company that pumps it out of the ground.

I cannot believe that has to be explained :shock:

For your plan to work, the government would have to nationalize the oil companies.... comrade.
 
apdst said:
Karl said:
j-mac said:
[...] Until we get serious and start tapping our own reserves that right now are kept under lock and key, in favor of making America MORE dependent on foreign sources, then the price will skyrocket [...]
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We don't have enough oil to affect global oil prices beyond a few percent. Anyone who knows anything knows that.
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But...we have the largest supply of natural gas in the world.
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You would have a valid point if a) the thread were about natural gas, and b) your post was correct. Sadly, neither is the case.

The U.S. is a distant 6th in world proven natural gas reserves ( List of countries by natural gas proven reserves - Wikipedia )
 
j-mac said:
Wait just a gall darn minute here....The supposed "Jobs bill" that had little to do with actual jobs being created, and more to do with all kinds of poison pills, and payoffs to Obama supporters? That Jobs bill?


j-mac
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you know thats how politics works " scratch my back " etc
 
Higgins86 said:
Maybe if the GOP had not of blocked his jobs bill or stood in the way of high speed rail then he might of approved this. Can't expect the guy to play ball with you if your not going to throw the ball back!
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Maybe if the GOP had not tried to ram it up his ass, he might have approved it quietly or shortly after the election.

However, that would not have given them a campaign issue, so they did something that they knew he would fight back on -- in order to give them the campaign issue they wanted. So, in effect, the only people to blame if the pipeline is not built is -- the GOP, who, once again prove that they will throw America under the bus for political gain.
 
Karl said:
Maybe if the GOP had not tried to ram it up his ass, he might have approved it quietly or shortly after the election.

However, that would not have given them a campaign issue, so they did something that they knew he would fight back on -- in order to give them the campaign issue they wanted. So, in effect, the only people to blame if the pipeline is not built is -- the GOP, who, once again prove that they will throw America under the bus for political gain.
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Case in point:
"Republican leaders have been signaling they want to get the tax issue off the agenda quickly this time, following a public relations disaster last month when they were viewed as standing in the way a temporary tax cut extension that ultimately was enacted.

Earlier this week, Obama rebuffed Republicans when the White House announced that a 60-day fast-track approval imposed by Congress was inadequate for weighing the environmental impact of the proposed pipeline route. As a result, the administration turned down the application but said new requests to build the project would be considered.

Republicans see Keystone as a pivotal campaign issue to use against Democrats in November’s presidential and congressional elections, arguing that the pipeline will create thousands of much-needed jobs while helping secure the country’s energy future.

“We are committed to keeping it on the front-burner,” said Representative Fred Upton, who chairs a House committee that oversees U.S. energy policy.

Upton also holds another important position as a negotiator on payroll tax cut legislation that is expected to move through Congress in coming weeks. In December, Republicans successfully attached the 60-day Keystone approval clock to a two-month extension of Obama’s payroll tax cut.

Congress has until February 29 to either continue a two percentage point cut in payroll taxes for 160 million workers or be blamed for raising taxes during an election year.

At a press conference, Upton expressed his desire to again try to force the construction of Keystone by attaching legislation to the next payroll tax cut bill. With fellow Republican Greg Walden, another payroll tax bill negotiator, standing with him, Upton said, “I’ve got to believe that at least two of us will be pushing for that.”

But Upton would not say whether House Speaker John Boehner, who will have a say in the final deal on the payroll tax cut legislation, also wants Keystone included in the tax bill again. Earlier this week, Boehner said many options were possible.

Representative Lee Terry, whose home state of Nebraska would host part of the pipeline, told reporters that a highway construction funding bill Congress is likely to consider this year is one of the other measures that Republicans are thinking of using to target for Keystone."

By attempting to Bully the President of the United States, the GOP pretty much forced Obama to grow some balls if he wants to seem Presidential in November...this miscalculation has likely not only backfired, but possibly started Obama on the offensive.
 
j-mac said:
Have we seen in recent times deals made say between Russia and Iran, or China and Russia using something other than the dollar to buy their oil? Yes, yes we have.
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But the sad part is, your right wing information sources are not telling you why these deals were struck, which results in making clueless connections like you have above.

Some countries are making deals in local currency to avoid U.S. sanctions on Iran. Fox and Rush didn't tell you that, did they? Of course not -- they hate Obama, and want you to think America is failing.

Jan. 23 [2012] (Bloomberg) -- Iran has asked India to pay for oil partly in yen as the two nations seek an agreement on how to maintain trade amid tightening global sanctions [...]

U.S. President Barack Obama on Dec. 31 signed into law measures that deny access to the U.S. financial system to any foreign bank that conducts business with the central bank of Iran.

Iran Said to Seek Yen Oil Payments From India Amid Sanctions - BusinessWeek
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The Russia/China story that you're all aquiver about dates back 2.5 years: Russia, China to Promote Ruble, Yuan Use in Trade (Update2) By Lyubov Pronina and Alex Nicholson [Bloomberg] - June 17, 2009 10:26 EDT
 
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Gill said:
What are these mysterious dangers ??
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Lets just start over:

teamosil said:
As for the environmental impacts, more oil is spilled each year from pipelines than all the other sources of spills combined.
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drz-400 said:
I would argue that pipelines may spill more oil, but that is because they transport more oil, and if you normalize the data for the amount of spill vs the amount of oil transported, it has to be one of the safest.
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teamosil said:
I don't know about that. That sound plausible and may be true, but I'd be curious to see hard data on it. I can see it either way. A ship, for example, can run into something or get hit in a storm or something, which seems intuitively riskier. But, on the other hand, thousands of miles of pipeline in the ground that nobody can inspect where it can potentially be leaking for months before they even realize it, where maintenance is nearly impossible... And you've got earthquakes and forest fires and ground freezing and thawing and so on.
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AdamT said:
What constantly blows me away is that so-called pro-business conservatives haven't a clue as to how business or markets work.
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How wrong is that statement? Is there any faux environmentalist statement the oil industry makes up that liberals don't buy into?

Let's see - it is environmentally superior and costs less to the send oil by mega tanker ships to China and have mega tanker ships from the Middle East coming here. Yes, THAT is environmentally sound. Everyone knows that oil in the ocean actually benefits the environment PLUS the further you transport oil by ships the less it costs too.

Also, the atmosphere of each country stays in that country. Fortunately we don't share the same atmosphere. That is the logic of liberal environmentalists as dictated to them by Wall Street speculators and big oil.
 
Higgins86 said:
Maybe if the GOP had not of blocked his jobs bill or stood in the way of high speed rail then he might of approved this. Can't expect the guy to play ball with you if your not going to throw the ball back!
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Shouldn't the American people or the American economy be considered?

And Barrack Obama is screwing the American people out of spite?
 
Grant said:
Shouldn't the American people or the American economy be considered?
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sure they should. and thanks to Obama, they shall be
that's why there is a thorough process to be followed
one which should not be short cutted by a false sense of urgency
and Obama has forbidden that rash shortcut of the process to be followed

And Barrack Obama is screwing the American people out of spite?
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how dare he follow the process to make sure we can agree that the benefit of the pipeline, more jobs short term, more availability in the international oil market
when compared to the risk
imposing eminent domain for the benefit of canadian oil concerns
spoiling waters and native habitat
funding the cost of additional environmental emissions abatement for the duration of the oil sands supply (estimated 300 years)

Obama has not ruled out the project
he simply refused to be pushed to say "yes" prematurely
he chooses to impose reason rather than emotion
 
justabubba said:
sure they should. and thanks to Obama, they shall be
that's why there is a thorough process to be followed
one which should not be short cutted by a false sense of urgency
and Obama has forbidden that rash shortcut of the process to be followed


how dare he follow the process to make sure we can agree that the benefit of the pipeline, more jobs short term, more availability in the international oil market
when compared to the risk
imposing eminent domain for the benefit of canadian oil concerns
spoiling waters and native habitat
funding the cost of additional environmental emissions abatement for the duration of the oil sands supply (estimated 300 years)

Obama has not ruled out the project
he simply refused to be pushed to say "yes" prematurely
he chooses to impose reason rather than emotion
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He should have vetoed the Kool Aid pipeline.
 
Grant said:
Shouldn't the American people or the American economy be considered?

And Barrack Obama is screwing the American people out of spite?
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Actually, a primary reason he "Screwed" the American people it seems...was due to considering them, and the environment they live in, let alone the thousands who would be impacted directly by an approval...and voiced concern. If he were to ignore the protests and the law in order to push the approval through, would that not be inconsiderate at the very least.

As for acting out of spite, if one of my employees tried to blackmail me....you bet your ass I would fight back, and likely far less pleasantly than he did.
 
Karl said:
No, it is not "our" oil. It belongs to whatever oil company that pumps it out of the ground.

I cannot believe that has to be explained

For your plan to work, the government would have to nationalize the oil companies.... comrade.
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Your pretty simple minded Karl. I dont speak for the American government, so i wasnt saying it was nationalized government oil. However any American based company DOES require the governments permission to operate within its borders. Companies dont have to be nationalized in order for the government to control their ability to export OR import. I would wager that any private oil company would jump at the oppertunity to establish more oil wells in America with the stipulation that they sold the oil on the US market BEFORE the global market. The government could simply refuse to grant drilling license's to any company refusing those terms.
 
tecoyah said:
Actually, a primary reason he "Screwed" the American people it seems...was due to considering them, and the environment they live in, let alone the thousands who would be impacted directly by an approval...and voiced concern. If he were to ignore the protests and the law in order to push the approval through, would that not be inconsiderate at the very least.
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What law would he have been ignoring?
 
tecoyah said:
Actually, a primary reason he "Screwed" the American people it seems...was due to considering them, and the environment they live in, let alone the thousands who would be impacted directly by an approval...and voiced concern. If he were to ignore the protests and the law in order to push the approval through, would that not be inconsiderate at the very least.

As for acting out of spite, if one of my employees tried to blackmail me....you bet your ass I would fight back, and likely far less pleasantly than he did.
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Oh please don't tell me that you are one of those that believes the opposition should sit back and just say yes sir to anything 'the One' dictates.

j-mac
 
tecoyah said:
Actually, a primary reason he "Screwed" the American people it seems...was due to considering them, and the environment they live in, let alone the thousands who would be impacted directly by an approval...and voiced concern. If he were to ignore the protests and the law in order to push the approval through, would that not be inconsiderate at the very least.
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The studies have been done and millions are being spent on more. It is a lobbyists dream.

As for acting out of spite, if one of my employees tried to blackmail me....you bet your ass I would fight back, and likely far less pleasantly than he did.
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Elected members to Congress are not his employees.

Luckily, 56% of the American people aren't as stupid as Barrack Obama. Perhaps there is hope.

56% Favor Building Keystone Pipeline, Think It
 
Temporal said:
Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected - Jan. 18, 2012



The story is just starting to break, but this is great news for people living in the regions that would be affected by this. The pipeline would have moved through very ecologically sensitive areas and the public was not consulted on this.

Looks like the protesting paid off. It might still get the nod in further applications - and probably after the election - but at least for now the environment is that much safer.
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It is?

Amusingly, a spokesman for the Sierra Club admitted “there is no question that [transporting] oil by rail or truck is much more dangerous than a pipeline,” but that didn’t stop the zero-growth eco-fanatics from calling in their chips with President Downgrade to kill that pipeline.

Those rail shipments are expected to “increase exponentially with increased oil production and the shortage of pipelines,” according to Justin Kringstad, director of the North Dakota Pipeline Authority. That’s going to be quite a windfall for the railroad companies, isn’t it?

As it happens, 75 percent of the oil currently shipped by rail out of North Dakota is handled by Burlington Northern Santa Fe LLC… which just happens to be a unit of Warren Buffett’s company, Berkshire Hathaway Inc. What a coincidence!

Warren Buffet Cleans Up After Keystone XL - HUMAN EVENTS
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Safer? Hardly! More profitable for Obama's cronies....DEFINITELY!
 
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It is the President’s prerogative to lead and manage the foreign policy of the United States, and in the case of the proposed Keystone XL pipeline project, our relations with Canada. This historical prerogative encompasses the President’s long-established authority to supervise the permitting process for transboundary pipelines.

The President has delegated his authority to supervise this permitting process, by executive order, to the Department of the State. This process for determining whether to issue permits for transborder pipelines has been in place for more than 40 years.

In determining whether a permit is in the national interest, this process requires consideration of a myriad of factors, including environmental and safety issues, energy security, economic impact, and foreign policy, as well as consultation with at least 8 federal agencies and inputs from the public and stakeholders – including Congress.

The State Department has led a rigorous, thorough, and transparent process that must run its course to obtain the necessary information to make an informed decision on behalf of the national interest. Should Congress impose an arbitrary deadline for the permit decision, its actions would not only compromise the process, it would prohibit the Department from acting consistently with National Environmental Policy Act requirements by not allowing sufficient time for the development of this information. In the absence of properly completing the process, the Department would be unable to make a determination to issue a permit for this project.

The State Department is currently in the process of obtaining additional information regarding alternate routes that avoid the Sand Hills in Nebraska. Based on preliminary consultations with the State of Nebraska and the permit applicant, the Department believes the review process could be completed in time for a decision to be made in first quarter 2013.
 
j-mac said:
Oh please don't tell me that you are one of those that believes the opposition should sit back and just say yes sir to anything 'the One' dictates.

j-mac
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Ok, I wont tell you that as it would be a false statement. My point was simply that by attempting to force a decision that was clearly not yet ready to be made, based on ongoing impact studies, state dept. requirements, and public outcry...the "Opposition" tried to overstep, if not bypass the requirements for approval. Honestly, I do not see where Obama had any choice in the matter...and probably got kinda pissed off too, as would anyone who was being bullied.
 
tecoyah said:
It is the President’s prerogative to lead and manage the foreign policy of the United States, and in the case of the proposed Keystone XL pipeline project, our relations with Canada. This historical prerogative encompasses the President’s long-established authority to supervise the permitting process for transboundary pipelines.

The President has delegated his authority to supervise this permitting process, by executive order, to the Department of the State. This process for determining whether to issue permits for transborder pipelines has been in place for more than 40 years.

In determining whether a permit is in the national interest, this process requires consideration of a myriad of factors, including environmental and safety issues, energy security, economic impact, and foreign policy, as well as consultation with at least 8 federal agencies and inputs from the public and stakeholders – including Congress.

The State Department has led a rigorous, thorough, and transparent process that must run its course to obtain the necessary information to make an informed decision on behalf of the national interest. Should Congress impose an arbitrary deadline for the permit decision, its actions would not only compromise the process, it would prohibit the Department from acting consistently with National Environmental Policy Act requirements by not allowing sufficient time for the development of this information. In the absence of properly completing the process, the Department would be unable to make a determination to issue a permit for this project.

The State Department is currently in the process of obtaining additional information regarding alternate routes that avoid the Sand Hills in Nebraska. Based on preliminary consultations with the State of Nebraska and the permit applicant, the Department believes the review process could be completed in time for a decision to be made in first quarter 2013.
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Here's another factor you may have overlooked.

Buffett would profit from Keystone cancellation - Washington Times
 
tecoyah said:
Actually, a primary reason he "Screwed" the American people it seems...was due to considering them, and the environment they live in, let alone the thousands who would be impacted directly by an approval...and voiced concern. If he were to ignore the protests and the law in order to push the approval through, would that not be inconsiderate at the very least.

As for acting out of spite, if one of my employees tried to blackmail me....you bet your ass I would fight back, and likely far less pleasantly than he did.
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Impacted directly ???

99% of the protests were from people that did not live anywhere near the pipeline.
 
tecoyah said:
Ok, I wont tell you that as it would be a false statement. My point was simply that by attempting to force a decision that was clearly not yet ready to be made, based on ongoing impact studies, state dept. requirements, and public outcry...the "Opposition" tried to overstep, if not bypass the requirements for approval. Honestly, I do not see where Obama had any choice in the matter...and probably got kinda pissed off too, as would anyone who was being bullied.
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It's both funny and sad that three years is not long enough to study a pipeline that will employ thousands of Americans, yet a 2,500 page, multi-billion dollar healthcare reform bill must be passed before we can find out what was in it.
 
Gill said:
Impacted directly ???

99% of the protests were from people that did not live anywhere near the pipeline.
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I did not state the protesters were amongst those directly impacted...nor did I imply it in any way. I stated thousands would be impacted, and there were protests...that you somehow managed to blend the two together says more about the agenda you are holding, than my comment.
 
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