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Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
the stink is caused by the farter who expelled the offensive gas... not the one who noticed it ...... see post 1267.

oh - here was the "big stink" I raised



Of course, your comment and the reaction of some right libertarians here seem to add credence to the charge that some here badly want to erase all mention of RACE from the lexicon for purely political reasons............ until they themselves bring it up.
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I think everyone understands why you chose to ignore the proper analogy I made which destroys the claim that catawba was "being truthful" and started whining about "introducting race".

Everyone saw it and you still haven't dealt with the analogy
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
There is nothing there I could find that compares the effective tax rates for those who's income is primarily from investments (like Romney) with someone in the working class making $50,000 who is paying both income taxes and payroll taxes. That was my claim that I provided authoritative documentation to back up.

If I missed where it is referenced, please quote it in your response.
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That is an interesting way to phrase that Cat...Could you explain what you mean by the bolded part above? Because if it is what I think it is, you are being highly disingenuous here.


j-mac
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

j-mac said:
That is an interesting way to phrase that Cat...Could you explain what you mean by the bolded part above? Because if it is what I think it is, you are being highly disingenuous here.


j-mac
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There is nothing odd about the phrasing once you understand that the middle class have to pay SS taxes on their full income, whereas the rich only have to pay taxes on their pay up to $106,800. Any income above that, they do not have to pay SS taxes on. That means that someone making $50,000 has to pay both income taxes and payroll taxes which means he is paying, as fact-checked by politifact, "22 to 23 percent in income and payroll taxes." This vs the 14% effective tax rate that Romney pays as shown by his tax report just released today.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
I think everyone understands why you chose to ignore the proper analogy I made which destroys the claim that catawba was "being truthful" and started whining about "introducting race".

Everyone saw it and you still haven't dealt with the analogy
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"Everyone" consists of a couple of your fellow believers. That is meaningless and irrelevant.

I will deal with your 'analogy' of race. This is this. This isn't somethign else. This is this.

Dealt with, crushed and flushed - smashed and trashed.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
the stink is caused by the farter who expelled the offensive gas... not the one who noticed it ..
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Have you not ever heard the phrase "whoever smelled it delt it"?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

And Romney has released his returns today with capital gains playing the big role in his income.

Romney Tax Returns Show 2-Year Income of $45 Million - NYTimes.com

a snippet

Mr. Romney said last week that his effective tax rate was “about 15 percent,” a figure lower than that of many affluent Americans. But his returns suggested that he paid an effective tax rate of nearly 14 percent.

In addition to his 2010 taxes, Mr. Romney is set to release estimates for his 2011 taxes, which he will file in April. The campaign will report that he will pay $3.2 million in taxes for 2011, for an effective tax rate of 15.4 percent. That is a slightly higher effective rate than he paid the year before, when he paid about $3 million to the Internal Revenue Service.
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Not bad for an income of $45 million to end up paying the rate a waitress can pay.

Hopefully, this will propel a major national discussion on the capital gains discriminatory rates and who enjoys those preferences.

And hopefully, those who defend it will atually be able to come up with more than the defends here have or they are doomed to be woefully outdebated.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
There is nothing there I could find that compares the effective tax rates for those who's income is primarily from investments (like Romney) with someone in the working class making $50,000 who is paying both income taxes and payroll taxes. That was my claim that I provided authoritative documentation to back up.

If I missed where it is referenced, please quote it in your response.
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It shows effective tax people pay regardless of the type of income.. therefore it covered what you are asking. Ask the poster of the data for clarification.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Dickieboy said:
Have you not ever heard the phrase "whoever smelled it delt it"?
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Only from the mouth of an eight year old who fails to understand the stupidity of the claim. ;)
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
There is nothing odd about the phrasing once you understand that the middle class have to pay SS taxes on their full income, whereas the rich only have to pay taxes on their pay up to $106,800. Any income above that, they do not have to pay SS taxes on. That means that someone making $50,000 has to pay both income taxes and payroll taxes which means he is paying, as fact-checked by politifact, "22 to 23 percent in income and payroll taxes." This vs the 14% effective tax rate that Romney pays as shown by his tax report just released today.
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Then I think you are indeed being disingenuous here. In order to keep it apples to apples you have to look at Federal income tax effective rates. Your attempt to separate withholding taxes that working people like myself pay and the tax at the end of the year that I will be filing shortly when I get all my documents together, is only a way to muddy the issue. Everyone knows that what ever withholding is taken from my check week to week is deducted from my adjusted tax owed at the end of the year. They are NOT two separate things. So, from my understanding is that people like myself, who earn about $60K per year, pay about a 12% effective rate in taxes. Romney, now, paid an effective rate in 2010 of about 13.9%, and in 2011 est. will pay about 14.5%....That is MORE than I pay. Not to mention real dollars, in the millions.

So, I really don't see the issue, other than those who oppose him on this oppose his success.

j-mac
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
And Romney has released his returns today with capital gains playing the big role in his income.

Romney Tax Returns Show 2-Year Income of $45 Million - NYTimes.com

a snippet



Not bad for an income of $45 million to end up paying the rate a waitress can pay.

Hopefully, this will propel a major national discussion on the capital gains discriminatory rates and who enjoys those preferences.

And hopefully, those who defend it will atually be able to come up with more than the defends here have or they are doomed to be woefully outdebated.
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If we really want to effect change, we've got to demonstrate we know what we're talking about...and not have our opinions discounted because "they just don't understand it."

A waitress with one child making $30,000 claiming only the standard deductions pays an effective rate of 3.65%. And that's not taking into consideration that she probably doesn't report all her tips. ;)

Marginal Tax Rate Calculator
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

The tax records show Romney paid an effective tax rate of 13.9% on his adjusted gross income in 2010 and 15.4% for last year.

How does Romney's effective tax rate compare to other Americans? The average effective tax rate of American taxpayers is 11%, according to an analysis by the non-partisan Tax Foundation. Millionaires pay about about 25%, the foundation says.Mitt Romney to pay $6.2M in taxes for 2010-2011

So he pays more overall taxes than the average American. Lets tax him some more.;)
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

mike2810 said:
The tax records show Romney paid an effective tax rate of 13.9% on his adjusted gross income in 2010 and 15.4% for last year.

How does Romney's effective tax rate compare to other Americans? The average effective tax rate of American taxpayers is 11%, according to an analysis by the non-partisan Tax Foundation. Millionaires pay about about 25%, the foundation says.Mitt Romney to pay $6.2M in taxes for 2010-2011

So he pays more overall taxes than the average American. Lets tax him some more.;)
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Now we'll just have to be patient while the class warriors develop the way to attack these facts....

j-mac
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

j-mac said:
Now we'll just have to be patient while the class warriors develop the way to attack these facts....

j-mac
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even a link provided by one of them showed this, yet they continue to say no its not right.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
Jokes are a good way to cover embarrassment for making a baseless accusation?
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Here is an article below full of what I believe to be unfair proposals by OWS. I'm not going to slice and dice all the ones I agree and disagree with. I don't agree with TD on every aspect but I do agree that over taxing is not productive. It's wealth redistribution attempted by a bunch of greedy politicians that won't efficiently spread it as much as waste it. Once they get their hands on it they'll spend it like they did Social Security.

Too many labor positions are lost to the influx of illegal aliens and production jobs being sent overseas. If you want to stop the bleeding in this country reverse some these free trade agreements that rob American wealth. Cut government spending and that alone will put money back in peoples pockets. And I do agree with one thing OWS espouses, stop corporate influence in government.

The 99%
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
And Romney has released his returns today with capital gains playing the big role in his income.

Romney Tax Returns Show 2-Year Income of $45 Million - NYTimes.com

a snippet



Not bad for an income of $45 million to end up paying the rate a waitress can pay.

Hopefully, this will propel a major national discussion on the capital gains discriminatory rates and who enjoys those preferences.

And hopefully, those who defend it will atually be able to come up with more than the defends here have or they are doomed to be woefully outdebated.
Click to expand...

Considering the actual average effective tax rate is 11%, your comparison to a waitress is disingenuous at best.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

I think every American should read this:

THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO


And apply it to today's liberal to understand where they are coming from...

j-mac
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

grip said:
Here is an article below full of what I believe to be unfair proposals by OWS. I'm not going to slice and dice all the ones I agree and disagree with. I don't agree with TD on every aspect but I do agree that over taxing is not productive. It's wealth redistribution attempted by a bunch of greedy politicians that won't efficiently spread it as much as waste it. Once they get their hands on it they'll spend it like they did Social Security.

Too many labor positions are lost to the influx of illegal aliens and production jobs being sent overseas. If you want to stop the bleeding in this country reverse some these free trade agreements that rob American wealth. Cut government spending and that alone will put money back in peoples pockets. And I do agree with one thing OWS espouses, stop corporate influence in government.

The 99%
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Do you think it is "screwing the rich" to require someone making $24 million dollars to pay the same effective tax rate as someone making $50,000?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
Do you think it is "screwing the rich" to require someone making $24 million dollars to pay the same effective tax rate as someone making $50,000?
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Your right. The guy making 24 million should be paying the same lower rate that the 50,000 guy is paying. That would be more fair.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
Do you think it is "screwing the rich" to require someone making $24 million dollars to pay the same effective tax rate as someone making $50,000?
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Already happening. It has already been show to you that Romney paid more effective rate than the person making a $50K income...So, either you are ignoring it intentionally to be dishonest, or you just don't understand what you are saying beyond a talking point.

j-mac
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
Now all you have to do is what you have been impotent to do over the last several pages: produce a quote of mine where I accuse someone here of racism in this thread.
Again, it was your ally Turtle who introduced RACE into a discussion of taxation in his post 1267.

Until he did that, there was no mention of race here.
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You're the only one mentioning the fact that he introduced race into a post. And what was your point of your mentioning it, if not for the sole point of insinuating that it was done inappropriately?

He brings up an example comparison using a racial description in a heated debate and you immediately use an accusatory tone in this quote.

Quote Originally Posted by haymarket
Bringing race into this does not advance the discussion.
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"Bringing race" was used only as a historically statistical value not a personal view point. But the "does not advance" portion of your comment is implying that it was used in some sort of bigoted way.

I'm not going to continue on this line because I don't think you honestly meant to out and out inflame the comment on a personal level. If you were to state an unbiased statistical fact using blacks and whites and someone said, "I don't think you should bring race into this" wouldn't you be offended as though you were making a personal racial reference?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Catawba said:
Do you think it is "screwing the rich" to require someone making $24 million dollars to pay the same effective tax rate as someone making $50,000?
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Wouldn't a flat tax rate be more fair and eliminate tax dodges?
 
I wish we'd just get rid of the IRS and income taxes all together. I'd be willing to pay more sales tax than have to deal with our silly tax code that takes an army of lawyers to decipher.

And it would eliminate arguments such as this.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

grip said:
Wouldn't a flat tax rate be more fair and eliminate tax dodges?
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The flat tax makes our system more regressive, and we have already gone too far in that direction when someone making $24 million dollars is paying 14% tax rate and someone making $50,000 is paying a 22%-23% tax rate.

Now back to the question you skirted:

"Do you think it is "screwing the rich" to require someone making $24 million dollars to pay the same effective tax rate as someone making $50,000?"
 
Paratrooper said:
I wish we'd just get rid of the IRS and income taxes all together. I'd be willing to pay more sales tax than have to deal with our silly tax code that takes an army of lawyers to decipher.

And it would eliminate arguments such as this.
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Unless you are rich, you would be paying higher taxes through sales tax.
 
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