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Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

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AdamT said:
Okay, and you are paying, in the form of taxes. So how are taxes immoral?
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I think the point he correctly makes is that stuff that is constitutional is valid, stuff that is not is not
 
AdamT said:
Okay, and you are paying, in the form of taxes. So how are taxes immoral?
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Because it is immoral for one person to coerce another in order to take their property.
 
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teamosil said:
The average American pays 27%. Romney pays 15%. Who isn't being honest here, us or you?
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The average American does not pay an effective tax rate of 27%. (Oh, why am I even BOTHERING????)

Please post a link showing that the average American pays an effective tax rate of 27%. And don't say, "I've already done that." You've already repeated this incorrect information a thousand times...posting a link a few times shouldn't be that painful. ;)
 
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MaggieD said:
I question your concept of capital gains. Raising taxes on capital gains will not effect anyone's 401K, pensions, IRA's, etc.

When Newt is paying 32% of his income, and Romney is paying only 15% of his income due to capital gains taxes (if that ends up being true), the electorate will definitely understand it. Throw in that Warren Buffett has structured his income into mostly capital gains by only taking a salary of $100,000 a year, and you've got the trifecta.
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It depends on how your pension is funded but the plan on doubling or tripling the tax on dividends will clearly effect retirement plans of many
 
TurtleDude said:
I think the point he correctly makes is that stuff that is constitutional is valid, stuff that is not is not
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And your theory is that everyone should be empowered to make his or her own determination about what is or is not constitutional, and thus how much tax he or she is willing to pay? That sounds workable.
 
MaggieD said:
The average American does not pay 27%. (Oh, why am I even BOTHERING????)

Please post a link showing that the average American pays an effective tax rate of 27%. And don't say, "I've already done that." You've already repeated this incorrect information a thousand times...posting a link a few times shouldn't be that painful. ;)
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He tries to assume that the poor=who pay no income tax, no death tax-are paying 27% of their income in state sales taxes and FICA which is dishonest because those aren't progressive taxes and he also dishonestly claims that Romney pays absolutely no other taxes other than his 15% LTCG or dividend taxes. It presumes he pays less than a half a percent in sales tax, state income tax, (which in Mass is at least 5%) property tax etc

In other words he is a liar
 
MaggieD said:
I question your concept of capital gains. Raising taxes on capital gains will not effect anyone's 401K, pensions, IRA's, etc.
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As I understand (barely) money contributed to these is tax deferred. The amount originally contributed is taxed at normal income rates based on your bracket upon withdrawal. Any appreciation in the account is taxed at capital gain rates upon withdrawal. BUT my understanding of the VAST COMPLEX tax system leaves MUCH to be desired…I’m glad someone gets paid to know that crap!
 
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AdamT said:
And your theory is that everyone should be empowered to make his or her own determination about what is or is not constitutional, and thus how much tax he or she is willing to pay? That sounds workable.
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I don't tend to worship the government as much as you do

and the issue is deeming it theft and Centinel is correct in calling unconstitutional spending theft. Its unconstitutional and while I understand that a dishonest and corrupt FDR USSC ignored the applicable precedent, I am still entitled-as a free american-to call crap crap
 
TurtleDude said:
It depends on how your pension is funded but the plan on doubling or tripling the tax on dividends will clearly effect retirement plans of many
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More information needed. ;) If my pension plan holds Microsoft stock and Microsoft pays a 3.5% dividend, that dividend goes directly into my tax-deferred pension plan. It's going to be taxed at ordinary income when I take it out anyway, no? Any dividends I earn in my IRA go into my IRA accounts tax-deferred as well. 401K's same way. What am I missing?
 
TurtleDude said:
He tries to assume that the poor=who pay no income tax, no death tax-are paying 27% of their income in state sales taxes and FICA which is dishonest because those aren't progressive taxes and he also dishonestly claims that Romney pays absolutely no other taxes other than his 15% LTCG or dividend taxes. It presumes he pays less than a half a percent in sales tax, state income tax, (which in Mass is at least 5%) property tax etc

In other words he is a liar
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:rofl -- I'm not sure he's a liar, Turtle. I think he's just ****in' with us. :rofl
 
MaggieD said:
More information needed. ;) If my pension plan holds Microsoft stock and Microsoft pays a 3.5% dividend, that dividend goes directly into my tax-deferred pension plan. It's going to be taxed at ordinary income when I take it out anyway, no? Any dividends I earn in my IRA go into my IRA accounts tax-deferred as well. 401K's same way. What am I missing?
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I was actually speaking about retirees who invested in the market and no longer have any earned income
 
Dickieboy said:
As I understand (barely) money contributed to these is tax deferred. The amount originally contributed is taxed at normal income rates based on your bracket upon withdrawal. Any appreciation in the account is taxed at capital gain rates upon withdrawal. BUT my understanding of the VAST COMPLEX tax system leaves MUCH to be desired…I’m glad someone gets paid to know that crap!
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If you have a regular IRA, every dollar that comes out is taxed at ordinary income tax rates. If you have a Roth IRA, the money comes out tax-free. 'Cept watch for Turtle's post; cause he knows more about this than both of us put together. ;)
 
MaggieD said:
:rofl -- I'm not sure he's a liar, Turtle. I think he's just ****in' with us. :rofl
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He's lying. He knows that a guy who lives in a state with state income tax and that tax is 5% or more, its a lie to claim that Romney didn't pay even one percent on his income other than federal income tax. What do you think the property tax in that area is? or the sales tax.
 
TurtleDude said:
I think the point he correctly makes is that stuff that is constitutional is valid, stuff that is not is not
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There's a big difference between paying taxes to support national defense (from which everyone benefits) and paying taxes so the government can give handouts to people.
 
Why would one include FICA taxes in this discussion? Aren't these 'investments' that will be paid out ultimately to those who paid them in?
 
Centinel said:
There's a big difference between paying taxes to support national defense (from which everyone benefits) and paying taxes so the government can give handouts to people.
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and use your money to buy the votes of people whose main political interests involve taking even more of your money
 
Dickieboy said:
Why would one include FICA taxes in this discussion? Aren't these 'investments' that will be paid out ultimately to those who paid them in?
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that's what FDR and his ilk told the public when that nonsense was passed in its original form
 
Dickieboy said:
So in 2007 the total realized capital gains was $924b and revenue on said gains was $126b (13.6%). The AVERAGE annual projected realized capital gains 2010-2015 is $740b. If the UNDERSTOOD proposal in this thread is to raise the capital gains tax rate to the 35% the US will realize an increase in revenue of $148b annually (740x.20). Notwithstanding the effect it will have on the economy does this REALLY sound like an effective way to reduce a $1.2t deficit? Am I missing something?

The Revenue Outlook
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After further reflection why not just take them all? Even the $740b will not cover the deficit.
 
Dickieboy said:
After further reflection why not just take them all? Even the $740b will not cover the deficit.
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the entire purpose of taxing the rich more is to persuade the masses that the dems can now spend more to buy their votes
 
TurtleDude said:
I don't tend to worship the government as much as you do

and the issue is deeming it theft and Centinel is correct in calling unconstitutional spending theft. Its unconstitutional and while I understand that a dishonest and corrupt FDR USSC ignored the applicable precedent, I am still entitled-as a free american-to call crap crap
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What you are doing, clearly, is ignoring precedent. Nothing wrong with disagreeing, but the way our system works, the SC is the final arbiter. I haven't heard any better suggestions from the Right.
 
AdamT said:
What you are doing, clearly, is ignoring precedent. Nothing wrong with disagreeing, but the way our system works, the SC is the final arbiter. I haven't heard any better suggestions from the Right.
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I am not ignoring it-I am saying it was dishonest and since the New Deal was based on raping over a century of precedent why should I worship its dishonesty?
 
TurtleDude said:
He's lying. He knows that a guy who lives in a state with state income tax and that tax is 5% or more, its a lie to claim that Romney didn't pay even one percent on his income other than federal income tax. What do you think the property tax in that area is? or the sales tax.
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Romney has four or five homes. Do you know in which state he resides for tax purposes?
 
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