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Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

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Go ahead and explain your argument. You think that nobody gave thought to how the tax system would affect different people differently? It was just a historical accident? Policies randomly thrown together? Even if that were true, which obviously is absurd, why the hell would that mean we shouldn't fix it now?

given that different states have radically different tax systems and given that my income taxes under the federal system no longer allows me to deduct state sales taxes etc WTH do you think?

the federal system is a different sovereign than the state (its that pesky federalism thing again) and the last I checked, the federal system doesn't credit me for living in a highly taxed state like Ohio. So again you are mistaken
 
given that different states have radically different tax systems and given that my income taxes under the federal system no longer allows me to deduct state sales taxes etc WTH do you think?

the federal system is a different sovereign than the state (its that pesky federalism thing again) and the last I checked, the federal system doesn't credit me for living in a highly taxed state like Ohio. So again you are mistaken

Not sure why you think that matters. Are you saying that you don't think we should consider state taxes because they vary? Why? Finish your argument.
 
Not sure why you think that matters. Are you saying that you don't think we should consider state taxes because they vary? Why? Finish your argument.
I don't believe in taxes on income so its a stupid question to ask me. I also believe that most of what the federal government does is improper and should be left to the states. Thus if a state wants to be a welfare paradise it can do so and of course the parasites will flock to it. of course people like me would leave if our taxes went way up and by that ability to migrate, a state could not be too generous with its tax dollars.
 
I don't believe in taxes on income so its a stupid question to ask me. I also believe that most of what the federal government does is improper and should be left to the states. Thus if a state wants to be a welfare paradise it can do so and of course the parasites will flock to it. of course people like me would leave if our taxes went way up and by that ability to migrate, a state could not be too generous with its tax dollars.

Ok well, anyways, I gather you've conceded all the arguments relevant to this thread. Move along.
 
Ok well, anyways, I gather you've conceded all the arguments relevant to this thread. Move along.

when someone awards himself a victory it pretty much suggests he was thrashed.

you never did answer your purpose in starting this thread
 
when someone awards himself a victory it pretty much suggests he was thrashed.

Well, if you come up with any arguments later or something, definitely feel free to present them.

you never did answer your purpose in starting this thread

Remember the post I told you to bookmark? Read it. Again.
 
Well, if you come up with any arguments later or something, definitely feel free to present them.



Remember the post I told you to bookmark? Read it. Again.

I didn't think your post was worthy of any special treatment. Generally when people are reluctant to repeat an answer its because they didn't like it the first time around
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MOre far left psychobabble. The "uber rich MAY OR MAY NOT pay a lower effective rate than the mere rich depending on the source of their income. The uber rich pay the top rate on earned income which has several brackets ending at 35% and they pay the upper of two brackets on investment income. the tax on investment income is not subject to several bracket but only a couple. Your pathetic attempt to confuse the two is just that-pathetic

the Lower classes by definition KEEP MORE OF THEIR EARNED money after the FEDERAL INCOME TAX has been applied because both the marginal rate (which is much higher than the effective rate for the lower classes, while the marginal and effective rates are almost the same for the very rich on earned income) than those in the 35% bracket

when you spew stuff as obviously wrong as you constantly do, it proves you are swimming in the class hatred koolaid vat

Quit trying to obfuscate the issue - the fact that capital gains rate is so low, the ones that can most afford to pay the fair tax rate don't. No wonder Mitt didn't want to show his tax returns - he knows that people aren't going to see it as "fair" like most gullible righties try to defend.
 
I didn't think your post was worthy of any special treatment. Generally when people are reluctant to repeat an answer its because they didn't like it the first time around

Kiddo, I've repeated that same set of arguments to you what, maybe three dozen times? You've never managed to come up with a counter argument, so instead you just play dumb like you forgot that the arguments were made. Enough of of it. Debate like an adult or go find a hobby that you are better at to fill your time.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Quit trying to obfuscate the issue - the fact that capital gains rate is so low, the ones that can most afford to pay the fair tax rate don't. No wonder Mitt didn't want to show his tax returns - he knows that people aren't going to see it as "fair" like most gullible righties try to defend.

when you start howling about fair tax rate I know I am dealing with a far left extremist.

what isn't fair are people who pay no income taxes voting to increase the taxes of those who pay most of them
 
Kiddo, I've repeated that same set of arguments to you what, maybe three dozen times? You've never managed to come up with a counter argument, so instead you just play dumb like you forgot that the arguments were made. Enough of of it. Debate like an adult or go find a hobby that you are better at to fill your time.

Kiddo? LOL You get schooled here and you spew that crap? How old are you? do you have a job?
 
That's just federal and income taxes, not all taxes. They left out all the regressive taxes. It's just the same flaw we've been pointing out over and over in Maggie and Turtle's posts.

and you continue to be mistaken or mislead. It amazes me that you continue to shift the debate to be all forms of taxes.
But if that makes you happy, then kick the can down the road.
I would bet the "rich" pay more sales tax on vehicles, household goods, clothes, utilities because they generally buy more expensive items.
Bet the rich pay more hotel sales tax because they stay at higher end lodging. Bet they pay more tax at when eating out because they go to more expensive places to eat.
Bet they pay higher property tax because they have higher priced homes, and more acres of land.

I would also bet that if I make more than you I pay more taxes , than you do. And I am not rich.
 
and you continue to be mistaken or mislead. It amazes me that you continue to shift the debate to be all forms of taxes.

What do you mean "shift the debate to be all forms of taxes"? I'm having to point out over and over that some of you guys keep presenting evidence that is blatantly skewed by only including a selection of taxes that makes it sound like our tax system is more progressive than it is. I'm not shifting the debate, I'm catching you guys in distortions.

I would bet the "rich" pay more sales tax on vehicles, household goods, clothes, utilities because they generally buy more expensive items.
Bet the rich pay more hotel sales tax because they stay at higher end lodging. Bet they pay more tax at when eating out because they go to more expensive places to eat.
Bet they pay higher property tax because they have higher priced homes, and more acres of land.

They pay more as an absolute amount of course, but that isn't what is relevant. They pay much, much, less as a percentage of their income or as a percentage of the total taxes paid of those types. Like you hear people say "the top 1% pays 30% of all taxes" or whatever, but really what they mean is "30% of federal income taxes" and then when you include all federal taxes, it turns out it's actually closer to 15%. And then when you include all taxes it's closer to 10%. That kind of intentional distortion to try to get people to support giving even more tax breaks to the people who need them the least is immoral in my view.
 
Yeah, I'm familiar with far-right talking points. But the fact is that safety net programs have cut the poverty rate in half, so the drug dealer analogy is piss poor.

Actually, I think a review of poverty rates in population show that welfare has done little, to nothing more than create a dependant class for demo constituency purpose.

J-mac

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
 
What do you mean "shift the debate to be all forms of taxes"? I'm having to point out over and over that some of you guys keep presenting evidence that is blatantly skewed by only including a selection of taxes that makes it sound like our tax system is more progressive than it is. I'm not shifting the debate, I'm catching you guys in distortions.



They pay more as an absolute amount of course, but that isn't what is relevant. They pay much, much, less as a percentage of their income or as a percentage of the total taxes paid of those types. Like you hear people say "the top 1% pays 30% of all taxes" or whatever, but really what they mean is "30% of federal income taxes" and then when you include all federal taxes, it turns out it's actually closer to 15%. And then when you include all taxes it's closer to 10%. That kind of intentional distortion to try to get people to support giving even more tax breaks to the people who need them the least is immoral in my view.
lets cut the crap

the top one percent pay more income tax than any other similar sized group in the USA

The top one percent pay more sales tax than any other similar sized group in the USA

The top one percent pay more property tax than any other similar sized group in the USA

The top one percent pay more airport tax, hotel tax and luxury taxes than any other similarly sized group in the United States

The Top one percent pay almost all the death tax on a federal level and more of it on a state level than any other similar sized group

I do tire of those who claim this group is somehow not paying its share of taxes
 
Actually, I think a review of poverty rates in population show that welfare has done little, to nothing more than create a dependant class for demo constituency purpose.

J-mac

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

I think I'd like to see you support that argument.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

when you start howling about fair tax rate I know I am dealing with a far left extremist.

what isn't fair are people who pay no income taxes voting to increase the taxes of those who pay most of them

That is about as an anti-American attitude as I have ever heard expressed by anyone not at war with the USA. We have an amendment to the Constitution that took that sort of elitist thinking and flushed it down the porcelain receptacle with the other normal contents of such a piece of plumbing. To express the attitude that voting should be connected to paying of fees or taxes or anything else is shameful. disgraceful and a betrayal of all that is sacred to America and its people.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

That is about as an anti-American attitude as I have ever heard expressed by anyone not at war with the USA. We have an amendment to the Constitution that took that sort of elitist thinking and flushed it down the porcelain receptacle with the other normal contents of such a piece of plumbing. To express the attitude that voting should be connected to paying of fees or taxes or anything else is shameful. disgraceful and a betrayal of all that is sacred to America and its people.

sorry I don't think you speak for America and welfare socialism is contrary to what the founders wanted
 
What do you mean "shift the debate to be all forms of taxes"? I'm having to point out over and over that some of you guys keep presenting evidence that is blatantly skewed by only including a selection of taxes that makes it sound like our tax system is more progressive than it is. I'm not shifting the debate, I'm catching you guys in distortions.



They pay more as an absolute amount of course, but that isn't what is relevant. They pay much, much, less as a percentage of their income or as a percentage of the total taxes paid of those types. Like you hear people say "the top 1% pays 30% of all taxes" or whatever, but really what they mean is "30% of federal income taxes" and then when you include all federal taxes, it turns out it's actually closer to 15%. And then when you include all taxes it's closer to 10%. That kind of intentional distortion to try to get people to support giving even more tax breaks to the people who need them the least is immoral in my view.

We have been arguing about this forever here.

Those on the right only want to talk about progressive taxes since they hate them more than the others because they are suppose to impact the rich. They seem to not care less about all the other regressive taxes since the rich are spared from any progressive impact of them.

In the final analysis, and honest discussion of the impact of taxes on America and the American people must include ALL taxes paid by ALL people to ALL levels of government. Anything else is playing with a rigged deck in a worked game.
 
lets cut the crap

the top one percent pay more income tax than any other similar sized group in the USA

The top one percent pay more sales tax than any other similar sized group in the USA

The top one percent pay more property tax than any other similar sized group in the USA

The top one percent pay more airport tax, hotel tax and luxury taxes than any other similarly sized group in the United States

The Top one percent pay almost all the death tax on a federal level and more of it on a state level than any other similar sized group

I do tire of those who claim this group is somehow not paying its share of taxes

Yes indeed, let's cut the crap. The top 1% pay more in taxes because they have an incredibly outsized proportion of the wealth. Don't bitch about your private jet burning too much fuel. The reason you're spending more on fuel than anyone else ... is that you have a private jet -- not because the middle class is getting free fuel from the government.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

sorry I don't think you speak for America and welfare socialism is contrary to what the founders wanted

When I speak about the right to vote free from connection from financial fees or taxes, I damn well speak for the US Constitution. If you don't like that - it is your right. But that is the reality we all live with.

In America, there is no connection between taxation and the right to vote and the US Constitution says so.
 
I do tire of those who claim this group is somehow not paying its share of taxes

You just fundamentally don't understand that taxes are related to income. If person A pays 15% of their income back in taxes, and person B pays 30%, every dollar that gets diverted to person A instead of person B we lose $0.15. The top 1% gets nearly a quarter of our GDP. When they pay only half the tax rate overall that working people pay, that costs our society enormously. If the entire top 1% paid only 15% that would cost us $525 billion every year. That's more than both wars, welfare, food stamps and NASA combined. We can't afford to keep throwing that money out the window like that. They need to pay their fair share just like everybody else has to.
 
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Yes indeed, let's cut the crap. The top 1% pay more in taxes because they have an incredibly outsized proportion of the wealth. Don't bitch about your private jet burning too much fuel. The reason you're spending more on fuel than anyone else ... is that you have a private jet -- not because the middle class is getting free fuel from the government.

more of the from each according to their ability crap.
 
The median effective tax rate in the US is 27%. That's how much the typical American pays between state and federal taxes. Megamillionaire robber baron Mitt Romney, however, only pays 15%.

That is not uncommon at all for the superrich. They do not pay many of the taxes middle class people pay at all- no FICA, no unemployment, no disability, etc. And many of the taxes that apply to a large portion of middle class's income- sales, property, vehicle, etc- apply to only a very tiny percentage of the income of someone as wealthy as Romney, so in effect, they don't really pay those either.

But, you might think, we have a progressive income tax system. Certainly the super rich get hit up on that one. But, nope, they don't. The progressive income tax system really only affects up to upper middle class people. People in really high paying jobs pay 35%, in addition to the other taxes listed above. But once you break past that into the super rich, they don't get paid in wages, they get paid with equity, and equity is only taxed at a measley 15%. So, in addition to being excused from most types of taxes, they get a 20% reduction in their tax break because they don't have to work to make their income.

Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes - CNN.com

Im going back to your original first post.
Your opening statement identifies state and federal taxes only. Yet througout the rest of this thread you bring up all taxes.

Are not the rich salary/labor wages subject to FICA Social Security for the first 108K (may be off a dollar or two)? Is there currently no limit for salary wages subject to FICA medicare part? Your beef seems to be in the capital income.

Your point that sales tax, property tax, etc is only a small percentage of the rich income compared to middle class is just money envy on your part. If you looked at dollars they pay more.

So in the end are you really promoting the re distribution of wealth?
 
more of the from each according to their ability crap.

Actually the poster just gave you a perfect example of apple pie red white and blue Americanism.
 
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