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Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
So what is the problem?
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well for those of us who understand the concept of a limited government--if a power is not specifically given the congress, it doesn't have the proper authority to act

and just because the left calls handouts "welfare" doesn't mean they are constitutional
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
well for those of us who understand the concept of a limited government--if a power is not specifically given the congress, it doesn't have the proper authority to act

and just because the left calls handouts "welfare" doesn't mean they are constitutional
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Which section of the Constitution deems that welfare is unconstitutional?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

JustinS said:
Which section of the Constitution deems that welfare is unconstitutional?
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another person who has no clue how things work

if it was not authorized specifically, it is not constitutional.


you seem to labor under the statist delusion that everything is legal for the federal government UNLESS it is specifically banned
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
well for those of us who understand the concept of a limited government--if a power is not specifically given the congress, it doesn't have the proper authority to act

and just because the left calls handouts "welfare" doesn't mean they are constitutional
Click to expand...

That's right. What makes them constitutional is the Supreme Court calling them constitutional.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

AdamT said:
Newt has the most liberal views on immigration of all the GOP candidates.
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yeah that proves that everyone running the GOP is far more right wing than Reagan.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
another person who has no clue how things work

if it was not authorized specifically, it is not constitutional.


you seem to labor under the statist delusion that everything is legal for the federal government UNLESS it is specifically banned
Click to expand...

So ... you're not familiar with the necessary and proper clause?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

AdamT said:
That's right. What makes them constitutional is the Supreme Court calling them constitutional.
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that is an intellectual equivalent of a punt on second down
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

AdamT said:
So ... you're not familiar with the necessary and proper clause?
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LOL-are you going to try to claim that welfare is a necessary and proper function of what delegated power

what kind of law do you claim to practice?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
LOL-are you going to try to claim that welfare is a necessary and proper function of what delegated power

what kind of law do you claim to practice?
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Yes, it is necessary for the general welfare.

You might want to check out Federalist No. 44 before you go further overboard about what you think the Founders meant. The Federalist #44

In it you will see Madison stating that the framers specifically did NOT choose to include in Constitution the language from the Articles of the Confederation stating that Congress was limited to expressly enumerated powers.
 
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

AdamT said:
Yes, it is necessary for the general welfare.

You might want to check out Federalist No. 44 before you go further overboard about what you think the Founders meant. The Federalist #44
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the general welfare is not a specific power delegated to congress and just because congress claims that welfare payments are necessary does not bootstrap that power into congressional hands properly
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
the general welfare is not a specific power delegated to congress and just because congress claims that welfare payments are necessary does not bootstrap that power into congressional hands properly
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See above.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
another person who has no clue how things work

if it was not authorized specifically, it is not constitutional.


you seem to labor under the statist delusion that everything is legal for the federal government UNLESS it is specifically banned
Click to expand...
:shock:

Congress has been handing out welfare illegally all this time? You libertarians really take rule of law to the extreme, don't you?
 
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

JustinS said:
:shock:

Congress has been handing out welfare illegally all this time? You libertarians really take rule of law to the extreme, don't you?
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lots of things congress does is not properly supported by the constitution

the war on drugs comes to mind
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
well for those of us who understand the concept of a limited government--if a power is not specifically given the congress, it doesn't have the proper authority to act

and just because the left calls handouts "welfare" doesn't mean they are constitutional
Click to expand...

Again, you are confusing two different things. General Welfare and the modern practice of welfare are not the same thing. They do not have to be the same thing. While the word WELFARE can have different meanings, in this case the first can justify the second.

Or do you have a Supreme Court ruling that says otherwise?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
lots of things congress does is not properly supported by the constitution

the war on drugs comes to mind
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And the Supreme Court has said that?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
Again, you are confusing two different things. General Welfare and the modern practice of welfare are not the same thing. They do not have to be the same thing. While the word WELFARE can have different meanings, in this case the first can justify the second.

Or do you have a Supreme Court ruling that says otherwise?
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This is your attempt at "reasoning":

"If Dad didn't want me to drive the car, he wouldn't have left me these keys."

"But those keys are for the lawn mower."

"It's pretty vague. And he never said I couldn't drive the car."
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
Again, you are confusing two different things. General Welfare and the modern practice of welfare are not the same thing. They do not have to be the same thing. While the word WELFARE can have different meanings, in this case the first can justify the second.

Or do you have a Supreme Court ruling that says otherwise?
Click to expand...

that makes no sense at all.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
yeah that proves that everyone running the GOP is far more right wing than Reagan.
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The current GOP as constituted in the Congress would NEVER agree to approve the Reagan initiatives on immigration.

Please do not think anyone here is stupid enough to believe that the position of one current Republican is the clear and obvious dominant party position. And it is intellectually dishonest to pretend it is.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
that makes no sense at all.
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Why is that?

You do not know the difference between the term General Welfare as used in the Constitution and the term welfare as the current social program?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
And the Supreme Court has said that?
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I love how you justify stuff based on whatever justifies what you want

for example

you justify a progressive tax scheme because it is the law

but then you whine about the tax rates on investment income which of course has the same "support" as the current tax scheme involving earned income.

You justify crap that is clearly contrary to the constitution because a lapdog FDR supreme court allowed it and subsequent courts were obedient to precedent but you whine about citizens united which has the exact same validity as the stuff the FDR court allowed
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

haymarket said:
Why is that?

You do not know the difference between the term General Welfare as used in the Constitution and the term welfare as the current social program?
Click to expand...

that also makes no sense at all
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Harshaw said:
This is your attempt at "reasoning":

"If Dad didn't want me to drive the car, he wouldn't have left me these keys."

"But those keys are for the lawn mower."

"It's pretty vague. And he never said I couldn't drive the car."
Click to expand...

I ha e no idea what you are talking about. I suspect you are confusing apples with cinderblocks.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
that also makes no sense at all
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Then you need to go to a dictionary to get informed, educated and illuminated.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
I love how you justify stuff based on whatever justifies what you want

for example

you justify a progressive tax scheme because it is the law

but then you whine about the tax rates on investment income which of course has the same "support" as the current tax scheme involving earned income.

You justify crap that is clearly contrary to the constitution because a lapdog FDR supreme court allowed it and subsequent courts were obedient to precedent but you whine about citizens united which has the exact same validity as the stuff the FDR court allowed
Click to expand...

I am not justifying anything. I support a progressive tax system for a large variety of reasons which have been discussed at length. If you need them again, I will be happy to provide them. The fact that the Supreme Court and the Constitution supports a progressive tax system is a reality.... but that is not what my support is based on. For you to say it is would be a lie and a falsehood and a perversion of my actual position.

I am merely trying to find out if your opinion is based on anything more than your opinion which is based on what you believe because you want to believe it.

So is it and can you cite evidence to support it?
 
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