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Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

However you want to spin it, she pays a higher tax rate than Romney is paying. Now, maybe Mitt has spent some sleepless nights crying himself to sleep wondering whether or not he'll be able to raise that 15% ... but I rather doubt it.

Tax Accounting Classes! Everybody, Tax Accounting Classes! I do not pay a higher tax rate than Romney. Gads. Unbelievable. As a matter of fact, AdamT, most of my money is in Dreyfus/Putnam/Other municipal bond funds on which I pay no Federal income tax at all. Some of it is in tax-sheltered annuities I've had for years that have a 5% floor. Suhweeet. 15%? No.Where.Near. And neither do you.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Tax Accounting Classes! Everybody, Tax Accounting Classes! I do not pay a higher tax rate than Romney. Gads. Unbelievable. As a matter of fact, AdamT, most of my money is in Dreyfus/Putnam/Other municipal bond funds on which I pay no Federal income tax at all. Some of it is in tax-sheltered annuities I've had for years that have a 5% floor. Suhweeet. 15%? No.Where.Near. And neither do you.

MaggieD, even if you're in the bottom 20% you pay a higher tax rate than Romney does. Sales taxes, property taxes, etc.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

However you want to spin it, she pays a higher tax rate than Romney is paying. Now, maybe Mitt has spent some sleepless nights crying himself to sleep wondering whether or not he'll be able to raise that 15% ... but I rather doubt it.

I like this sort of post-

when people criticize me for saying envy and spite motivates the leftwing posts about tax rates I can point to posts like this. She is not paying a higher rate on progressive taxes than Maggie is paying so stop lying

its dishonest to try to mix non-progressive taxes in to confuse progressive tax rates. I realize the class envy attack on the rich tries to hide the true motivations for this illness but those of us who understand how taxes work and the legislative history behind the various taxes know damn well that not every tax was passed as a progressive tax, that there is nothing that makes "progressive taxes" better or "more fair" than other sorts of taxes etc
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD, even if you're in the bottom 20% you pay a higher tax rate than Romney does. Sales taxes, property taxes, etc.

wow more of the same dishonesty. mixing in non progressive taxes to try to claim non progressive overall taxes

and you are lying again. the bottom 20% often are paying those state taxes with handouts from the government
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Tax Accounting Classes! Everybody, Tax Accounting Classes! I do not pay a higher tax rate than Romney. Gads. Unbelievable. As a matter of fact, AdamT, most of my money is in Dreyfus/Putnam/Other municipal bond funds on which I pay no Federal income tax at all. Some of it is in tax-sheltered annuities I've had for years that have a 5% floor. Suhweeet. 15%? No.Where.Near. And neither do you.

part of being a liberal is assuming you know more about someone else's economic situation than they do themselves Maggie. that is what justifies liberals pretending they ought to run our lives when it comes to economic matters
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

mixing in non progressive taxes to try to claim non progressive overall taxes

I have no idea where you got that idiotic notion, but obviously it doesn't make any sense...
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Well good for you, but I guaran****ingdamntee you that I pay a considerably higher rate than Mitt.

If you were honest, you'd get right up out of your chair, go get your 2010 Federal Income Tax Form and figure it out. But you won't, because you want to hang on to that illusion. Divide the Federal income tax you paid last year by Line 37 which is your Adjusted Gross Income. See what you come up with.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD, even if you're in the bottom 20% you pay a higher tax rate than Romney does. Sales taxes, property taxes, etc.

I'm done with you, Teamosil. You're either being ridiculous or you just don't know how much you don't know. I'm not sure which it is...
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

If you were honest, you'd get right up out of your chair, go get your 2010 Federal Income Tax Form and figure it out.

And your state tax forms. And all your sales receipts. And your paychecks to add up unemployment and disability and FICA. And your property tax paperwork. And any paperwork you have on vehicle taxes. And, really, you should add in the employer's portion of FICA because they just take that out of your wages.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

I have no idea where you got that idiotic notion, but obviously it doesn't make any sense...

the idiotic notion is assuming that all taxes should be progressive and then whining when all taxes combined may show a lack of progressivity

the fact is, Romney pays a higher effective rate on like income than people making less than he does. and confusing earned income with unearned income and the varying tax rates is nothing more than a patent attempt to try to justify whining that Mitt ought to pay more

you ignore actual dollars paid

you ignore like income

you ignore effective rates vs marginal rates

all you do is whine that the rich don't pay enough which is clearly based on not a rational analysis or even a clear understanding of the various forms of taxes and relevant rates

all investors generally get a lower rate

whining that is unfair because the rich have (often) a higher proportion of investment income is clearly idiotic and a silly argument to claim that investment tax rates ought to be jacked up just for the rich
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

I'm done with you, Teamosil. You're either being ridiculous or you just don't know how much you don't know. I'm not sure which it is...

another wonderfully accurate post

Good night Maggie, I am done with being King Arthur for the night, I have to go wipe the blood off my sword and my armor
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

the idiotic notion is assuming that all taxes should be progressive and then whining when all taxes combined may show a lack of progressivityh

Regardless of whether you want progressive or regressive taxation, you need to look at all the taxes to know how progressive our system is or isn't. You look at the real data, and make conclusions based on that. What is dishonest is to try to hide half the data because it makes it look like the system is more progressive than it actually is.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Tax Accounting Classes! Everybody, Tax Accounting Classes! I do not pay a higher tax rate than Romney. Gads. Unbelievable. As a matter of fact, AdamT, most of my money is in Dreyfus/Putnam/Other municipal bond funds on which I pay no Federal income tax at all. Some of it is in tax-sheltered annuities I've had for years that have a 5% floor. Suhweeet. 15%? No.Where.Near. And neither do you.

Oh dear, you really think that you're not paying income taxes because you're buying munis with your income? I hope the IRS isn't reading this! :lol:

Well, perhaps you have little or no straight income and you're just relying on investment income? If so it's generally not a great idea to make bad or mediocre investments to try to avoid LTCG. You must have gotten slaughtered over the last few years, yes?

Personally, I pay a much higher rate than Mitt and there is no good way around it, short of breaking the law or making bad investments.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

I'm pretty sure I paid a -2 or -3 percent last year (2010).

Edit: Wait, is it accurate to say "paid" if my rate was negative?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

I'm pretty sure I paid a -2 or -3 percent last year (2010).

Edit: Wait, is it accurate to say "paid" if my rate was negative?

Maybe federal taxes only, not counting FICA... Total you almost certainly paid a higher percentage than Romney.

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2011.pdf
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

I'm pretty sure I paid a -2 or -3 percent last year (2010).

Edit: Wait, is it accurate to say "paid" if my rate was negative?

Oh boy, TD is going to be so envious.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Oh dear, you really think that you're not paying income taxes because you're buying munis with your income? I hope the IRS isn't reading this! :lol:

Tax Accounting Classes, Adam!!! Tax-free Muni's are Federally tax free. Don't know that? I'm sorry for you.

Well, perhaps you have little or no straight income and you're just relying on investment income? If so it's generally not a great idea to make bad or mediocre investments to try to avoid LTCG. You must have gotten slaughtered over the last few years, yes?

Not at all....in fact my tax-frees are up about 15% (I think) in the last few years.

If you're paying 15% of your Adjusted Gross Income in Federal income taxes, you need a professional tax preparer...unless, as I said, you're making well in excess of $200K a year.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
Maybe federal taxes only, not counting FICA... Total you almost certainly paid a higher percentage than Romney.

Perhaps you should read the OP again. Romney claimed to have paid a "15% income tax". We need to compare apples to apples here.

45% of households owe no federal income taxes.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

If you were honest, you'd get right up out of your chair, go get your 2010 Federal Income Tax Form and figure it out. But you won't, because you want to hang on to that illusion. Divide the Federal income tax you paid last year by Line 37 which is your Adjusted Gross Income. See what you come up with.
We have a progressive tax system and all the bracket percentages are marginal rates. Here his how the taxes are calculated:

Tax Brackets (Federal Income Tax Rates) 2000 through 2011 and 2012
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Perhaps you should read the OP again. Romney claimed to have paid a "15% income tax". We need to compare apples to apples here.

Yeah, so state and federal income and capital gains taxes. Those are the only taxes he would pay any kind of meaningful percentage of his income on. The rest of the taxes are regressive, so once you get up near his tier they are well below 1% of your income. So, his total taxes paid are between 15% and 16% of his income. Meaning he pays about the same as somebody in the lowest 20%, but less than the people in other brackets.
 
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Tax Accounting Classes, Adam!!! Tax-free Muni's are Federally tax free. Don't know that? I'm sorry for you.



Not at all....in fact my tax-frees are up about 15% (I think) in the last few years.

If you're paying 15% of your Adjusted Gross Income in Federal income taxes, you need a professional tax preparer...unless, as I said, you're making well in excess of $200K a year.

The municipal bond market is down roughly 40% over the past few years, while my portofolio is up about 50%. One sure way to avoid taxes is to lose money. I'll give you that much.

I would suggest that you find someone who knows something about investments and not just tax avoidance.
 
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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

The municipal bond market is down roughly 40% over the past few years, while my portofolio is up about 50%. One sure way to avoid taxes is to lose money. I'll give you that much.

Well, if that's true, I'm one hell of a fund picker, 'cause mine are up. But since you play fast and loose with percentages, I'm not going to pat myself on the back. ;)
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Maybe federal taxes only, not counting FICA... Total you almost certainly paid a higher percentage than Romney.

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2011.pdf

I’m having trouble with your link. The CBO report, Effective Federal Tax Rates Under Current Law, 2001 to 2014
Indicates the 2010 effective FEDERAL tax rates to be first Q- 5.8%, 2nd - 12.3%, 3rd – 16.1%, 4th – 20.5% 5th – 27.1% . The numbers in the column on your link ‘Federal Taxes’ appear to be vastly different. What gives? Which is the more reputable souce?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
Those are the only taxes he would pay any kind of meaningful percentage of his income on. The rest of the taxes are regressive, so once you get up near his tier they are well below 1% of your income.

I agree with your conclusion but this is not what you said earlier. I just wanted to make sure we were all being honest here.

Taxes are absolutely regressive. But then again so are all prices!

A very poor man must serve up nearly 100% of his income in order to obtain food, clothing, and perhaps shelter but a rich man can afford all of these things to excess and only utilize a minute portion of his income. Does this mean that all prices should be progressive as well? Perhaps it is not the difference in material wealth which is the problem here...
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

AdamT said:
I would suggest that you find someone who knows something about investments and not just tax avoidance.

Tax avoidance is perfectly legal; tax evasion is illegal.
 
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