Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

teamosil · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
the people getting special breaks are everyone BUT THE RICH

Yeah so you keep claiming. Except it always turns out you're dead wrong every time we debate it doesn't it?

mike2810 · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Lets look at some quotes from the OP's link to CNN

"At the White House, Carney told reporters that President Barack Obama believes wealthy Americans "should not pay a lower effective tax rate than middle-class Americans."
Was Carney talking about federal tax rate, State tax rate, or both? Think the answer is.... Federal.

"When a reporter noted Romney was following the law, Carney responded: "The president believes we ought to change the law, for that reason." And he said the tradition of presidential candidates from both parties revealing their tax returns dates back to Romney's father, George, who released 12 years of tax records when he sought the Republican nod in 1968."

So have you ever heard Obama talk about changing State income tax law? No, it clear that Carney is speaking of Obama's wish to change federal tax law.

Can we now put this to rest. Romney revealed he pays 15% federal because most of income comes from capitial income.

winston53660 · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
NOt relevant-nice try but not relevant. the point is (and you missed) is that different states have different taxes and claiming that "the poor" pay more taxes percentage wise than Romney because one incorporate state taxes requires an analysis of each state

Knock knock any one in there?

If they are not paying a tax whose position do you think that works in favor of? Yours or tea's?

teamosil · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
I have proven you lied on this thread

Seriously, you're going to sit there and pretend that you think Mitt Romney pays more than 1% of his income in regressive taxes. That is honestly what you're going to pretend? Obviously you know that is ridiculous, so quit playing dumb.

TurtleDude · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
Yeah so you keep claiming. Except it always turns out you're dead wrong every time we debate it doesn't it?

well you were the one proven wrong tonight objectively

all the other stuff is your opinion and your values which I reject. You lied about what Romney was quoted on and you continued to deny that even when the language of the article was shown to you. and then you start making stuff up about the rich benefiting more and you base it on obviously speculative horse poop

does anyone think you have won tonight? what have I said that can objectively be proven wrong? I have already proven you objectively WRONG and you demonstrated you lost when you directed an unsubstantiated personal attack at me

TurtleDude · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
Seriously, you're going to sit there and pretend that you think Mitt Romney pays more than 1% of his income in regressive taxes. That is honestly what you're going to pretend? Obviously you know that is ridiculous, so quit playing dumb.

that's not at issue and you know it

you are trying to divert from the fact you got tuned

MaggieD · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

While many were workin' for bosses and takin' home those sure paychecks with those paid vacations, sick days and hospitalization, I was starting my own business...starving for four or more years...working 60+ hours a week...taking risks...borrowing capital to grow my company...foregoing vacations...paying outrageous premiums for my health insurance...crying myself to sleep over the stress of firing employees and paying my bills...sick days? You've got to be kidding. Paid my taxes every year without monkeying with the numbers...sometimes had to borrow money to pay 'em, but pay 'em I did.

I've never collected food stamps. Never collected unemployment. Never collected Section 8 Housing subsidies. Never collected one damn dime from any governmental agency.

I saved my money and invested it well. I pay my taxes just like you do. I'm not in the 1%, but I'm doin' damn fine. While others went into debt to have the best toys in town, I paid cash and never carried a credit card balance. You know, that's sorta' called "living within one's means."

Ya'll tell me...what did I do wrong? What did the government ever do for me other than provide me with a safe place to work my ass off?

I'm so sick and tired of class envy, I can't TAKE it any more. :rofl

Rhapsody1447 · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
I've seen the totals for combined state and federal dozens of times. They're always the same except for a minor variance by year. If you have any figures that contradict these, by all means lets see them. I never have.

I don't pretend to know everyone in the country's tax burden. I look at federal effective tax rates when debating FEDERAL TAX POLICY.

By averaging.

Speculating.

I'm incorporating all taxes because that's the actual tax burden and I don't see any reason to intentionally distort it to make it look like one group is paying more of the taxes than they are by leaving some out randomly...

Right so you can slam any fee/tax that is not progressive as regressive. There is no distorting FEDERAL TAX RATES; all you need to do is look at the law. Claiming a $100 DMV fee is regressive is the only distortion going on here.

I think all types of income should be taxed as income. No special breaks for rich investors.

Your hate makes you nearly incomprehensible. All investors pay the same tax rate, not just rich ones. So you support removing incentives for holding investments over a year, gotcha. Should we get rid of charitable deductions while were at it since those "favor the rich"?

No, he was paid primarily as "carried interest" by Bain anyways. I doubt he made even 5% of his lifetime money as wages.

Right, more baseless speculation on your part. Romney was CEO of Bain & Co. before he started Bain Capital, what does your crystal ball tell you he paid then?

teamosil · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

mike2810 said:
So have you ever heard Obama talk about changing State income tax law? No, it clear that Carney is speaking of Obama's wish to change federal tax law.

Right... Not sure what you think that indicates. A federal official would change the federal rates, not the state ones. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't look at how all taxes are distributed when figuring out where it is reasonable to put more tax burden. They adjust the federal tax law to offset regressive taxation in states all the time.

iguanaman · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
you are lying. the 90% rate was gone before LBJ took office. and the effective rate back then wasn't much different than it is now due to all kinds of exemptions, write offs and other ways to lessen that confiscatory top marginal rate.

If you think 90% is a great rate you need to start paying that much of every next dollar you earn. If you aren't willing to keep only 10c of every dollar you earn you have absolutely no integrity demanding that others pay that rate

I'de be overjoyed to pay that 90% because that would mean I was making over $500,000 a year! You know that 90% was not the rate on "every dollar" don't you? That rate was only paid on income OVER $500,000 or what ever the threshold was. The 1st $500,000 are taxed at the lower rate, just like $250,000 of your income will still get the lower rate when those Bush tax cuts expire this year. Only your income over that $250K limit will get the hike to 39% so maybe you should look into some more worthy charities or give some of your employees a raise so you won't have to pay so much to Uncle Sam. Its all good, it gets that money out of the closet just like taxes do, and you can feel like you are cheating the Govt.

teamosil · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
well you were the one proven wrong tonight objectively

What the hell are you talking about? What do you think you've proven me wrong on? lol.

TurtleDude said:
all the other stuff is your opinion and your values which I reject.

My opinion... Dude, I posted the effective tax rates. That was the core of what we've been arguing about and it turned out I was 100% right and you were completely wrong about that. I presented a list of areas where the rich benefit more from society than the rest of us and you had no counter argument. Lets here it. Inside your head, where did you win a debate tonight?

TurtleDude said:
that's not at issue and you know it

What are you talking about its not the issue? He paid 15% in progressive taxes. He almost certainly paid less than 1% is regressive. So his total tax burden is between 15% and 16%... Did you think that changed something? lol.

TurtleDude · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Rhapsody1447 said:
I don't pretend to know everyone in the country's tax burden. I look at federal effective tax rates when debating FEDERAL TAX POLICY.

Speculating.

Right so you can slam any fee/tax that is not progressive as regressive. There is no distorting FEDERAL TAX RATES; all you need to do is look at the law. Claiming a $100 DMV fee is regressive is the only distortion going on here.

Your hate makes you nearly incomprehensible. All investors pay the same tax rate, not just rich ones. So you support removing incentives for holding investments over a year, gotcha. Should we get rid of charitable deductions while were at it since those "favor the rich"?

Right, more baseless speculation on your part. Romney was CEO of Bain & Co. before he started Bain Capital, what does your crystal ball tell you he paid then?

great post-you are right, hate is what motivates a lot of this nonsense towards the rich. they engage in some real idiocy-such as saying the progressive rates on earned income is perfect because congress decreed it and then they turn around and piss and moan about the tax rates (which give many groups a break) on investment income

they cannot argue why the rates on LTCG are wrong OTHER THAN WHINING about the rich

its all about envy-it has nothing to do with sound economics or even the "Good of society"

its about envy and spite

TurtleDude · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
What the hell are you talking about? What do you think you've proven me wrong on? lol.

My opinion... Dude, I posted the effective tax rates. That was the core of what we've been arguing about and it turned out I was 100% right and you were completely wrong about that. I presented a list of areas where the rich benefit more from society than the rest of us and you had no counter argument. Lets here it. Inside your head, where did you win a debate tonight?

.

do you really want me to post your error tonight

where you claimed Romney was talking about all of his taxes being 15%?

POST 182

teamosil said:
TD how many times have I explained to you why just looking at federal is idiotic? 100 times? Try harder.

No, that is false. That is Romney's total taxes state and federal. People in his tier don't really pay state taxes. Sales and property and all that are irrelevant percentage wise at his point. But, he says flat out that he paid 15% total in taxes.

and the article says as follows

Republican presidential front-runner Mitt Romney revealed Tuesday that he pays about a 15% income tax rate

teamosil · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Rhapsody1447 said:
I don't pretend to know everyone in the country's tax burden.

Luckily that data is readily available.

Rhapsody1447 said:
I look at federal effective tax rates when debating FEDERAL TAX POLICY.

Just pretend the other taxes don't exist? Just so that you get the numbers that support your political preferences instead of the real numbers?

Rhapsody1447 said:
Right so you can slam any fee/tax that is not progressive as regressive. There is no distorting FEDERAL TAX RATES; all you need to do is look at the law. Claiming a $100 DMV fee is regressive is the only distortion going on here.

How is a $100 DMV not regressive? Of course that's regressive. Somebody who makes $1m/year doesn't drive 100 times as many cars as somebody who makes $10k/year...

Rhapsody1447 said:
All investors pay the same tax rate, not just rich ones.

You know that the rich make a much higher percentage of their income investing than do working people.

Rhapsody1447 said:
Right, more baseless speculation on your part. Romney was CEO of Bain & Co. before he started Bain Capital, what does your crystal ball tell you he paid then?

That wouldn't be this tax year anyways, but I would guess he probably still was paid in carried interest then too. Most CEOs are payed primarily in equity so they get the low tax rate.

teamosil · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
do you really want me to post your error tonight

where you claimed Romney was talking about all of his taxes being 15%?

Oh look, you decided not to quote the part of my post where I responded to that argument did you... Again:

What are you talking about its not the issue? He paid 15% in progressive taxes. He almost certainly paid less than 1% is regressive. So his total tax burden is between 15% and 16%... Did you think that changed something? lol.

AdamT · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Makes perfect sense to me. Maybe if I use different words.... You seem to be saying that Romney is already paying too much in taxes, because he doesn't get back from government what he pays in. Then you said that you have no idea how much benefit he got from the $800 billion TARP program (for example). Thus your main premise is based on pure speculation (and you won't even speculate).

If I was to speculate I would say that Romney got tens of millions of dollars in value from TARP, insofar as his money is tied up in investments which would have lost a substantial percentage of their value if the government had not propped up the banks, and thus the markets. It may be that he got more value from that one action than he will EVER pay in.
Romney was very rich long before TARP

ponder that

and here-you claim this makes sense?

and d then you say you don't what he gets back ... that's not all that convincing.

Wow, that is ponderous. Completely illogical and devoid of merit, but ... ponderous! :lol:

TurtleDude · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
Oh look, you decided not to quote the part of my post where I responded to that argument did you... Again:

What are you talking about its not the issue? He paid 15% in progressive taxes. He almost certainly paid less than 1% is regressive. So his total tax burden is between 15% and 16%... Did you think that changed something? lol.

I dub thee BLACK KNIGHT:mrgreen:

AdamT · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:
While many were workin' for bosses and takin' home those sure paychecks with those paid vacations, sick days and hospitalization, I was starting my own business...starving for four or more years...working 60+ hours a week...taking risks...borrowing capital to grow my company...foregoing vacations...paying outrageous premiums for my health insurance...crying myself to sleep over the stress of firing employees and paying my bills...sick days? You've got to be kidding. Paid my taxes every year without monkeying with the numbers...sometimes had to borrow money to pay 'em, but pay 'em I did.

I've never collected food stamps. Never collected unemployment. Never collected Section 8 Housing subsidies. Never collected one damn dime from any governmental agency.

I saved my money and invested it well. I pay my taxes just like you do. I'm not in the 1%, but I'm doin' damn fine. While others went into debt to have the best toys in town, I paid cash and never carried a credit card balance. You know, that's sorta' called "living within one's means."

Ya'll tell me...what did I do wrong? What did the government ever do for me other than provide me with a safe place to work my ass off?

I'm so sick and tired of class envy, I can't TAKE it any more. :rofl

So what do you want, a cookie? No one envies you. Nor does anyone want to raise your taxes. Actually, the argument is that you are paying too much in the way of taxes relative to those who are in the top 1%. Some of us feel kind of bad that people like you are paying a higher tax rate than someone like Mitt Romney.

TurtleDude · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

AdamT said:
So what do you want, a cookie? No one envies you. Nor does anyone want to raise your taxes. Actually, the argument is that you are paying too much in the way of taxes relative to those who are in the top 1%. Some of us feel kind of bad that people like you are paying a higher tax rate than someone like Mitt Romney.

she isn't paying a higher tax rate than Romney on like income

nor is she paying a higher overall federal income tax level unless she is making over 200K a year

maybe she is but the fact remains if she invests she will pay less on that income than on salary and if she sells that business she will pay less as well than her earned income

TurtleDude · Jan 18, 2012

btw your claim Adam T that no one wants to raise her tax rate is in error

MaggieD · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

AdamT said:
So what do you want, a cookie? No one envies you. Nor does anyone want to raise your taxes. Actually, the argument is that you are paying too much in the way of taxes relative to those who are in the top 1%. Some of us feel kind of bad that people like you are paying a higher tax rate than someone like Mitt Romney.

I'm not paying a higher rate than Mitt Romney. And neither are you. Thread after thread on this board talks about people complaining that the rich don't pay enough taxes...that they are a favored class. I don't pay anywhere near 15% effective tax rate on my Federal income tax. And likely neither do you. No.Where.Near.

teamosil · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
she isn't paying a higher tax rate than Romney on like income

nor is she paying a higher overall federal income tax level unless she is making over 200K a year

But she is paying higher tax rates overall isn't she? So why would it matter that she pays different types of taxes than Romney?

AdamT · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
she isn't paying a higher tax rate than Romney on like income

nor is she paying a higher overall federal income tax level unless she is making over 200K a year

maybe she is but the fact remains if she invests she will pay less on that income than on salary and if she sells that business she will pay less as well than her earned income

However you want to spin it, she pays a higher tax rate than Romney is paying. Now, maybe Mitt has spent some sleepless nights crying himself to sleep wondering whether or not he'll be able to raise that 15% ... but I rather doubt it.

teamosil · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:
I'm not paying a higher rate than Mitt Romney. And neither are you. Thread after thread on this board talks about people complaining that the rich don't pay enough taxes...that they are a favored class. I don't pay anywhere near 15% effective tax rate on my Federal income tax. And likely neither do you. No.Where.Near.

Yeah probably not, but you definitely are paying higher tax rates total than Romney. Why would it matter that the taxes he pays are different taxes than the ones you pay?

AdamT · Jan 18, 2012

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:
I'm not paying a higher rate than Mitt Romney. And neither are you. Thread after thread on this board talks about people complaining that the rich don't pay enough taxes...that they are a favored class. I don't pay anywhere near 15% effective tax rate on my Federal income tax. And likely neither do you. No.Where.Near.

Well good for you, but I guaran****ingdamntee you that I pay a considerably higher rate than Mitt.

Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

teamosil

mike2810

winston53660

teamosil

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

MaggieD

Rhapsody1447

Skeptical Optimist

teamosil

iguanaman

teamosil

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

teamosil

teamosil

AdamT

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

AdamT

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

MaggieD

teamosil

AdamT

teamosil

AdamT