Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

iguanaman said:

So NO, it is not wrong to ask people who make more to pay more.

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pssst........people that make more money already pay more income taxes.

Ever look at the tables when you file taxes ???

How much do YOU think people should pay in federal income tax ??

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Gill said:

pssst........people that make more money already pay more income taxes.

Ever look at the tables when you file taxes ???

How much do YOU think people should pay in federal income tax ??

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people who make millions of dollars a year should NOT have a lower rate than i do, period. it's unconscionable.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

iguanaman said:

How much do you think it costs to live in America? There is no money to spare in an income less than $26,000. Do you want blood from a stone?

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It depends solely on where you choose to live.
I know in my city you can buy a house for under 26,000.

Income tax rates are based on the earners ABLILITY to pay..

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Which is why it starts at 10% and goes up to 35%.

So NO, it is not wrong to ask people who make more to pay more.

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If you are not paying federal income taxes or exploit the hell out of loopholes then you have no business demanding others pay more.Its just makes you a hypocrite which results in you losing what ever credibility you had.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Gill said:

pssst........people that make more money already pay more income taxes.

Ever look at the tables when you file taxes ???

How much do YOU think people should pay in federal income tax ??

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It depends on how much growth you want in the economy. Raising rates on top earners even a few % has proven to increase private investment in business and even lower unemployment and raise average salaries.
In fact, in the aftermath of the Clinton tax increase, the economy grew at an impressive 4 percent per year, adding an average of around 240,000 new jobs every month.
Imagine the growth that a top rate of 50% would bring.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

jamesrage said:

It depends solely on where you choose to live.
I know in my city you can buy a house for under 26,000.



Which is why it starts at 10% and goes up to 35%.




If you are not paying federal income taxes or exploit the hell out of loopholes then you have no business demanding others pay more.Its just makes you a hypocrite which results in you losing what ever credibility you had.

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i am demanding that the wealthy pay at least the same rates i do, plain and simple. all income should be taxed at the same rates. i will also add that everyone can't just pick up and move. i can buy a house here for 50k, but there are no jobs here.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:

Not true. If he earns a salary (which he does), he pays FICA just like everyone else. If his state requires he chip in on unemployment, he does that, too. (In Illinois, employees don't pay into that fund. Employer pays it all.) Disability? You only pay disability insurance premiums if you choose to.

Then you go on to gripe about how much sales tax he pays. More than you, I'll bet....since he spends a whole lot more. Property tax? He probably pays a fortune in property taxes, depending upon the cost of his home. Etc. "So in effect, they don't really pay those either." Logic fail.



Why do you think Warren Buffett (the left's hero) pays a lesser percentage than his secretary? He pays himself only $100K in annual salary and takes the rest as dividends...or perhaps stock options. Hypocrite, that one.

As to Romney? When he "revealed he pays about 15% in taxes," he was talking about his effective tax rate; not his tax bracket. Compare that to yours. Yours is probably closer to 5%. Take the total amount of income tax you paid last year (don't count Social Security) and divide that number by your Adjusted Gross Income. (If you even paid any income tax last year....since 47% of "taxpayers" paid none at all.

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The reason he pays lower taxes is because of tax deductions and itemized forms. Most middle income tax payers don't have enough in itemized deductions to take the deductions, only wealthier people can manage to get 100,000s in tax deductions whereas the guy making 75,000 likely takes nothing in itemized deductions. If Buffet paid himself a salary, he'd still most likely pay less than his secretary because he'd still qualify for thousands of dollars in deductions. And I don't think that owning stock makes him a hypocrite. Maybe we should tax all income the same... :shrug:

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:

My BS detector just redlined. and like most lefties you ignore the real issue-actual dollars paid in taxes vs benefits received for those dollars.

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I thought the real problem was balancing the budget. If you're against middle class welfare, then you should be equally opposed to upper class welfare. Nobody should get a free ride.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

liblady said:

i am demanding that the wealthy pay at least the same rates i do, plain and simple. all income should be taxed at the same rates.

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Conservative hero of yesteryear, Ronald Reagan agreed:

"the biggest reason for equalizing capital gains rates may be that it would generate a vast amount of additional revenue for the Treasury. The Internal Revenue Service reports that for taxpayers with the top 400 adjusted gross incomes, capital gains in 2008 amounted to an eye-popping average of $154 million for each of those taxpayers, or 57 percent of their adjusted gross income, and this in a year when the stock market plunged. In 2007, it was $229 million each, or 66 percent. Much of the windfall from higher capital gains rates could be offset by cutting the rate on ordinary income. For antitax zealots who vow they won’t accept one more penny of federal tax, all of it could be offset by lower rates on ordinary income. And for advocates of reducing the government deficit at least in part through higher taxes, tax reform is an appealing approach.

Though controversial, this isn’t a new idea. The most prominently successful advocate of a drastically simplified tax code that treated ordinary income and capital gains the same was Ronald Reagan, who made it a centerpiece of his successful 1986 tax reform proposal."

"In the end, the most compelling argument for equalizing tax rates on capital gains and ordinary income may not be economic efficiency, growth incentives, higher tax revenue or reducing the deficit. It’s simple fairness. It’s hard to quantify or put a dollar value on a just society. “I’ve earned both, and in my experience earning income from capital gains is a lot easier than earning ordinary income,” Mr. Burman said. “Why not tax both at the same rate? It only seems fair.”

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

SheWolf said:

The reason he pays lower taxes is because of tax deductions and itemized forms. Most middle income tax payers don't have enough in itemized deductions to take the deductions, only wealthier people can manage to get 100,000s in tax deductions whereas the guy making 75,000 likely takes nothing in itemized deductions. If Buffet paid himself a salary, he'd still most likely pay less than his secretary because he'd still qualify for thousands of dollars in deductions. And I don't think that owning stock makes him a hypocrite. Maybe we should tax all income the same... :shrug:

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no, the reason he pays a lower tax RATE is that dividends and cap gains are taxed at 15%.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

j-mac said:

More Class warfare....YAWN!


j-mac

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First page of the thread and the phrase already comes out. Class Warfare... it's used as an divisive term anymore and has no other meaning. It's used to avoid having an actual discussion and conversation about legitimate concerns. Yes, class warfare is occurring in this country and it's real. If you note, the people defending Romney are the one's supporting Walker and other politicians in their fight against unions and middle income workers. We shouldn't pick one class over the other, but that's what it looks like.

I don't understand why it's so damn difficult for our nation to discuss the fact that corporations pay less money in taxes than most of us and make billions in revenue. That should piss everybody off and that should be easily changed by our current president with much, much support. We should also be able to discuss Romney's tax situation and figure out something that is actually FAIR, fair as in, the concept people on both sides use when discussing taxation in this country.

I really think that this discussion is just pathetic on many levels, and I also find that many, many people are completely ignorant and stupid about the tax code and how it works, yet they believe so strongly that they know what they are talking about. In fact it's some of the loudest people in this debate, who think they know their **** and they don't. It's annoying as ****. Even taking a college tax classes 20 plus years ago doesn't mean you know much about taxes today.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

liblady said:

no, the reason he pays a lower tax RATE is that dividends and cap gains are taxed at 15%.

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She said Romney is paid a salary but he said he is unemployed so IDK... but if he is just strictly salary, then he benefiting from massive deductions since salary is not capital gains

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

SheWolf said:

She said Romney is paid a salary but he said he is unemployed so IDK... but if he is just strictly salary, then he benefiting from massive deductions since salary is not capital gains

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actually, warren buffet pays himself a salary of 100k, which is peanuts.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Well, if I understand it correctly, Romney's income is pretty much based on past investments. One of the incentives for investors to invest is a reduced tax rate. I don't think he did anything illegal or shady.

But this is just another example of how the playing field is rigged to the point where the rich get richer. It takes money to make money. Money snowballs. Those of us in the middle out here, without a whole lotta money to begin with, we're kinda screwed. If you are born into money (or hit the lottery, LOL) you have the advantage of being able to afford higher education, tax deductions, etc., and the beat goes on.

I don't think Romney's a bad guy for making money while following the rules. It's the rules I have a problem with. Level the playing field. Under the current system, the American dream is all but gone for those yet to achieve it.

Where Romney screwed up was saying he didn't make that much money at his 1-2 hour speaking engagements even though one speaking engagement payment is more than the annual average income of the SC citizens.

This has probably already been brought up on this thread. I just didn't have time to start reading at the beginning.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

SheWolf said:

The reason he pays lower taxes is because of tax deductions and itemized forms. Most middle income tax payers don't have enough in itemized deductions to take the deductions, only wealthier people can manage to get 100,000s in tax deductions whereas the guy making 75,000 likely takes nothing in itemized deductions. If Buffet paid himself a salary, he'd still most likely pay less than his secretary because he'd still qualify for thousands of dollars in deductions. And I don't think that owning stock makes him a hypocrite. Maybe we should tax all income the same... :shrug:

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You didn't read the last part of my post. Romney was referring to his Effective Tax Rate -- not his tax bracket. Figure you own out; if you're paying a 5% effective rate, I'll be surprised.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:

You didn't read the last part of my post. Romney was referring to his Effective Tax Rate -- not his tax bracket. Figure you own out; if you're paying a 5% effective rate, I'll be surprised.

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i pay more than a 15% effective rate, i'll tell you that.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

liblady said:

i am demanding that the wealthy pay at least the same rates i do, plain and simple. all income should be taxed at the same rates. i will also add that everyone can't just pick up and move. i can buy a house here for 50k, but there are no jobs here.

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I believe that everyone should pay the same tax rate.Personally I think it should be a national sales instead of a income tax. The more you spend the more you pay and the less you spend the less you pay but it is actually fair seeing how everyone would be paying the same tax percentage rate.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

jamesrage said:

I believe that everyone should pay the same tax rate.Personally I think it should be a national sales instead of a income tax. The more you spend the more you pay and the less you spend the less you pay but it is actually fair seeing how everyone would be paying the same tax percentage rate.

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i think a progressive scheme is fine, but all types of income should be subjected to that progressive scheme. there is no way that a family making 40k should have to pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than a family making 100k. period. a national sales tax could cause exactly that.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

jamesrage said:

I believe that everyone should pay the same tax rate.Personally I think it should be a national sales instead of a income tax. The more you spend the more you pay and the less you spend the less you pay but it is actually fair seeing how everyone would be paying the same tax percentage rate.

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You realize that your own taxes would go way up, right?

There's nothing fair about a sales tax. Poor and middle class people spend all, or almost all of their income. Thus they would be taxed on all, or most of their income. Wealthier people are able to save and invest much more, so a rich person might only be taxed on 10% of his or her income. This has been shown in VAT countries.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

iguanaman said:

It depends on how much growth you want in the economy. Raising rates on top earners even a few % has proven to increase private investment in business and even lower unemployment and raise average salaries.
In fact, in the aftermath of the Clinton tax increase, the economy grew at an impressive 4 percent per year, adding an average of around 240,000 new jobs every month.
Imagine the growth that a top rate of 50% would bring.

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Imagine what a top rate of 100% would do ??

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

liblady said:

people who make millions of dollars a year should NOT have a lower rate than i do, period. it's unconscionable.

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They don't.

Everyone with the same salary pays the same in taxes if their deductions are the same.

Everyone with the same income from capital gains pays the same in taxes if their deductions are the same.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

liblady said:

i think a progressive scheme is fine, but all types of income should be subjected to that progressive scheme. there is no way that a family making 40k should have to pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than a family making 100k.

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Then you should be fine with the current tax structure. A family making $40k either pays 0% or actually -0% in federal income tax.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

misterman said:

That's not what the slogan refers to. Nice straw man.

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the slogan refers to nothing. it's just a trite and meaningless way of attempting to justify taking from others to give to ourselves by making it sound somehow as if they had it coming.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

jamesrage said:

I believe that everyone should pay the same tax rate.Personally I think it should be a national sales instead of a income tax. The more you spend the more you pay and the less you spend the less you pay but it is actually fair seeing how everyone would be paying the same tax percentage rate.

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Really? It seems fair to you that 100% of most peoples income would be taxed while those at the top pay tax only a small %? In a economy where 75% of it is consumer spending you think we should penalize people who spend their income? I'll stick with the Progressive tax which taxes income NOT spent at a higher rate. Those that spend only a small part of their income every year are the REAL slackers in this economy and we need to stick it to them if we want to grow the GDP. Taxing sales is the LAST thing we need.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

AdamT said:

You realize that your own taxes would go way up, right?

There's nothing fair about a sales tax.

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A sales tax is extremely fair.Fair implies equal share or treatment.Equal means the same as or evenly proportioned. Everybody paying the same percentage is fair.Everybody paying the same sales tax percentage is fair.

Poor and middle class people spend all, or almost all of their income.

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That has nothing to do with whether or not the taxes are fair.Fair implies equal share or treatment.It doesn't have squat to do with how much you have after taxes.

Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

SheWolf said:

The reason he pays lower taxes is because of tax deductions and itemized forms. Most middle income tax payers don't have enough in itemized deductions to take the deductions, only wealthier people can manage to get 100,000s in tax deductions whereas the guy making 75,000 likely takes nothing in itemized deductions

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well, that depends on whether or not he has a house - mortgage interest gets' you up pretty quick.

BUT, of course, if he's not taking itemized deductions, that means (assuming married filing jointly) he's got $11,400 standard deduction. Not too shabby. Which (again) is why the average effective FIT is actually lower than the 15% everyone here seems so upset about.

If Buffet paid himself a salary, he'd still most likely pay less than his secretary because he'd still qualify for thousands of dollars in deductions. And I don't think that owning stock makes him a hypocrite. Maybe we should tax all income the same... :shrug:

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I agree. for example, currently we double-tax income from ownership of stocks, making it a nominal 50%. We need to reduce that to the income rate levels, and we need to do it in the context of reducing deductions while lowering nominal rates to something more approximating the effective rates. You can raise more revenue and tax income from ownership the same as income from labor (as Democrats want) while getting rid of the second-highest corporate tax in the industrialized world and lowering nominal rates (as Republicans want).