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Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

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Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

actually, as of 2009, it was 11.06%. And that's just for those with a "positive liability". I think you have confused "effective" with "nominal".

False. That is only your FEDERAL effective tax rate. 27% is the total effective tax burden- state and federal. That's what Romney is citing too, but of course since he's super rich he essentially pays no state taxes. State taxes are almost all, or in some states all, regressive.

precisely. because they are not stupid - instead they are dynamic creatures that respond to incentives. When you increase marginal rates, you accordingly increase incentives to alter compensation in such a manner as to decrease exposure. Even the President takes advantage of the tax credits and deductions that are available to him, even as he derides others for doing so.

Not sure what significance you think that has. Yeah, most rich people pay the ultra reduced rates. That's my point.

However, all of Romney's income was taxed before he got it, often at the nominal 35%; so I'm not terribly worried that he's not paying his fair share of supporting the government.

Also false. Bain Capital- the source of most of his income- is a partnership, not a corporation. Partnerships do not pay taxes at all.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

if thats how you want to do it, then you have given a false apples-to-oranges comparison by adding in state, local, and other federal taxes to your claimed median, but only counting Federal Income for Romney.

What? No, that is Romney's total effective tax rate also. It's apples to apples.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

When I hear these specifically phrased points, I always wonder something. If Warren has it so great and contributes so little, maybe he and his secretary would like to trade tax bills. Not effective rates, but bills.

When the top 1% is no longer paying 38% of all FIT and the top 10% is no longer paying almost 3 quarters of all collected FIC, I will listen to talk about not paying their fair share.

I actually don't mind the idea of taxing capital gains as normal income (tho I wouldn't fight for it). The stuff I keep seeing about how these guys are just getting away with theft when they are the ones footing the bill really pushes me away from the point they are trying to make.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

The impression is one who has invested and now is reaping the benifits. If you don't like the capital income tax laws, get your rep to help change the tax code.

In all fairness, Pelosi and her wealth growth is also legal.

Does she give the impression of the type of person that works? I'll help you out, she is rich, her husband is rich. They use the same tax code and take advantage of the tax code like anyone else in their income bracket. So you see it does no good to do partisan rock throwing. The other side is just as guilty.

No doubt Pelosi should pay way more in taxes. And Buffet and Gates and all the other rich Democrats. The tax breaks indeed do go to people from both parties. That doesn't make them any more acceptable.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

What? No, that is Romney's total effective tax rate also. It's apples to apples.

libs whine about a guy paying millions in taxes when they have no problem with people voting for tax hikes on others who have a zero federal income tax rate.

and you ignore that his dividend income was already taxed
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

No doubt Pelosi should pay way more in taxes. And Buffet and Gates and all the other rich Democrats. The tax breaks indeed do go to people from both parties. That doesn't make them any more acceptable.

why? so people like you can have artificially low taxes for what you want from the government?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

When I hear these specifically phrased points, I always wonder something. If Warren has it so great and contributes so little, maybe he and his secretary would like to trade tax bills. Not effective amounts, but bills.

When the top 1% is no longer paying 38% of all FIT and the top 10% is no longer paying almost 3 quarters of all collected FIC, I will listen to talk about not paying their fair share.

That doesn't really make sense to talk about the absolute amount somebody pays. If you just look at that then all you're really measuring is how wide the wealth gap is between the super rich and working people. They pay a lot of taxes because they're getting insanely huge amounts of money. That gap being super wide is an argument for more progressive taxation, not less.

I actually don't mind the idea of taxing capital gains as normal income

In my view that is the solution to a lot of society's problems. Put the super rich's interests in the same bucket as working people.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

That doesn't really make sense to talk about the absolute amount somebody pays. If you just look at that then all you're really measuring is how wide the wealth gap is between the super rich and working people. They pay a lot of taxes because they're getting insanely huge amounts of money. That gap being super wide is an argument for more progressive taxation, not less.



In my view that is the solution to a lot of society's problems. Put the super rich's interests in the same bucket as working people.

actually there are good reasons why the income tax scheme actually helps the people you call insanely wealthy

the death tax and the progressive income tax hurts those who are somewhat rich and insulates the "insanely rich"

that is why so many uber wealthy people support the death tax and progressive income taxes. guys making 400K to 2 or 4 million a year with a lot of salary in that mix tend to be the ones most opposed to the PIT and the Death tax
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Pelosi inherited and married into wealth, she has done nothing really to earn it but since she's a big lefty she won't get criticized by the whiners who attack Romney who actually created wealth

So you guys have a lot in common.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

actually there are good reasons why the income tax scheme actually helps the people you call insanely wealthy

the death tax and the progressive income tax hurts those who are somewhat rich and insulates the "insanely rich"

that is why so many uber wealthy people support the death tax and progressive income taxes. guys making 400K to 2 or 4 million a year with a lot of salary in that mix tend to be the ones most opposed to the PIT and the Death tax

The estate tax doesn't hurt anyone who's just somewhat rich.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

So you guys have a lot in common.

silly personal attacks are bad enough, ones based on lies are even worse and when envy and lies combine, its the nadir
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

The estate tax doesn't hurt anyone who's just somewhat rich.

really, tell us your expertise on that. and define somewhat rich. you libs want the death tax to start at a million so a modest estate of 2 million means the second million loses 550,000 dollars
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

silly personal attacks are bad enough, ones based on lies are even worse and when envy and lies combine, its the nadir

That's quite ironic, so you do get half a point. :lol:
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

That's quite ironic, so you do get half a point. :lol:

You really haven't the cred to be that arrogant towards anyone.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

really, tell us your expertise on that. and define somewhat rich. you libs want the death tax to start at a million so a modest estate of 2 million means the second million loses 550,000 dollars

"you libs" want that? According to whom? As far as expertise, at least I know enough to understand that the exemption is per inheritor, so if there's more than one inheritor there is exactly zero tax on a $2 million estate -- even with your made-up $1 million exemption.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

You really haven't the cred to be that arrogant towards anyone.

I'll notify the cred rating board of your opinion.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

That doesn't really make sense to talk about the absolute amount somebody pays. If you just look at that then all you're really measuring is how wide the wealth gap is between the super rich and working people. They pay a lot of taxes because they're getting insanely huge amounts of money. That gap being super wide is an argument for more progressive taxation, not less.

They pay insane amounts already. Yes, those who are in the 1% at any given time hold lots of money. I don't think we need them to cover more than the nearly half of FIT. I understand that those who have the money end up paying more. It's not fair, but it's logical and necessary. However, whoever the 3 million are at the moment are paying almost as much as the 270 million people using the same services. I think it's time to look at where that money is being spent before we start demanding more from them.

In my view that is the solution to a lot of society's problems. Put the super rich's interests in the same bucket as working people.
I see advantages, such as encouraging reinvestment into companies and such. I just find the argument is often hard for people to separate from general tax rates, so I hesitate to argue it.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

"you libs" want that? According to whom? As far as expertise, at least I know enough to understand that the exemption is per inheritor, so if there's more than one inheritor there is exactly zero tax on a $2 million estate -- even with your made-up $1 million exemption.

so you deny that Obama wanted the old rate of one million? Okie dokie

the exemption is tied to the amount of the estate under the pre Bush rules. the current exclusion amount is 5 million
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

No doubt Pelosi should pay way more in taxes. And Buffet and Gates and all the other rich Democrats. The tax breaks indeed do go to people from both parties. That doesn't make them any more acceptable.

thanks for stating that.
While this thread was specific to Romney, I felt it was important to show that other politicians are doing the same thing.
I am not sure I wan't to see all income treated the same. But that is for another thread.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

btw the tax exemption involves the owner of the estate not the heirs. a 15 million dollar estate with three heirs does not get more exemptions than one with 15 million and two heirs as AdamT tried to suggest
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

I don't think we need them to cover more than the nearly half of FIT.

Looking only at federal income taxes is a deception. That is less than half of all taxes. It is the only progressive tax in the system. It is progressive in part because it has to offset the bulk of other taxes that are regressive. If you look at all taxes, they pay a much smaller percentage. If you looked at what percentage of sales taxes different brackets pay you'd find that the middle class pay like 90% of sales taxes and the top 1% pay only maybe 2% of them for example. You couldn't draw conclusions about what share of the taxes the rich pay overall based on that alone either.

I understand that those who have the money end up paying more. It's not fair, but it's logical and necessary.

Why is it not fair? By definition they're pulling more benefit out of society. Why shouldn't they have to chip more back in to keep the society they're reaping that benefit from strong?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

thanks for stating that.
While this thread was specific to Romney, I felt it was important to show that other politicians are doing the same thing.
I am not sure I wan't to see all income treated the same. But that is for another thread.

if all income were to be treated the same then dividends would no longer be taxed as corporate profits first
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Looking only at federal income taxes is a deception. That is less than half of all taxes. It is the only progressive tax in the system. It is progressive in part because it has to offset the bulk of other taxes that are regressive. If you look at all taxes, they pay a much smaller percentage. If you looked at what percentage of sales taxes different brackets pay you'd find that the middle class pay like 90% of sales taxes and the top 1% pay only maybe 2% of them for example. You couldn't draw conclusions about what share of the taxes the rich pay overall based on that alone either.



Why is it not fair? By definition they're pulling more benefit out of society. Why shouldn't they have to chip more back in to keep the society they're reaping that benefit from strong?

that is one of the most moronic assumptions in the tax debate-that the rich "are pulling more benefit" out of society. In reality they do far more to benefit society before we even start to talk about taxes

its a lie the left invented to serve as a facade to hide the "from each according to their ability" nonsense

if you want to base taxes on what people use than you would have to admit that the millions who pay no income taxes use far more than one millionaire which would destroy that basis for your tax "fairness" nonsense
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

if all income were to be treated the same then dividends would no longer be taxed as corporate profits first

Oh dear god I'm getting taxed twice not only when I pay income tax but also when I pay sales tax!
 
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