• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
read that statement of yours again and rewrite it-it makes no sense-there is either a typo or the wrong word someplace in that comment that buggers things up
Click to expand...

Makes perfect sense to me. Maybe if I use different words.... You seem to be saying that Romney is already paying too much in taxes, because he doesn't get back from government what he pays in. Then you said that you have no idea how much benefit he got from the $800 billion TARP program (for example). Thus your main premise is based on pure speculation (and you won't even speculate).

If I was to speculate I would say that Romney got tens of millions of dollars in value from TARP, insofar as his money is tied up in investments which would have lost a substantial percentage of their value if the government had not propped up the banks, and thus the markets. It may be that he got more value from that one action than he will EVER pay in.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

AdamT said:
Makes perfect sense to me. Maybe if I use different words.... You seem to be saying that Romney is already paying too much in taxes, because he doesn't get back from government what he pays in. Then you said that you have no idea how much benefit he got from the $800 billion TARP program (for example). Thus your main premise is based on pure speculation (and you won't even speculate).

If I was to speculate I would say that Romney got tens of millions of dollars in value from TARP, insofar as his money is tied up in investments which would have lost a substantial percentage of their value if the government had not propped up the banks, and thus the markets. It may be that he got more value from that one action than he will EVER pay in.
Click to expand...

Romney was very rich long before TARP

ponder that

and here-you claim this makes sense?

and d then you say you don't what he gets back ... that's not all that convincing.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
Lets see, here is the argument.

TD-I pay too much tax for what I get

TSL-you need to pay more even though you pay more than most people
Click to expand...

You appear to have completely missed every argument I made in the post. Try again.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

Dickieboy said:
Can you define ‘one way or another’ specifically?
Click to expand...

I did. It would go to whoever they named in their wills if they had them, or relatives if they didn't have wills. Since nobody but 99%ers would be left in that scenario, it would keep going until it reached a 99%er or until they ran out of heirs in which case it would go to the government.

Dickieboy said:
With their 30% part of the wealth?
Click to expand...

Yes. Who did you think would buy their shares of companies so they could cash out if not the 99%?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:
No, he's on a thread where the majority of posters don't understand what Romney said. He was talking about his Effective Tax Rate, not what bracket he's in. Most people don't even know what that is -- he does. Ya'll should, too.
Click to expand...

Right. Romney's effective total tax rate is 15%. The median effective total tax rate for an American is 27%.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
Right. Romney's effective total tax rate is 15%. The median effective total tax rate for an American is 27%.
Click to expand...

what is the average effective tax rate of most americans-much less than that. and the 15% refers to his federal income tax rate on earned and investment income. He pays 35% on earned income, 15% on investment income

the top rate for both types of income. no group pays an effective federal income tax rate over 25%

your claim is dishonest because that median rate involves all taxes and you are not comparing Romney's total tax rate but rather federal income tax rate
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
no group pays an effective federal income tax rate over 25%
Click to expand...

TD how many times have I explained to you why just looking at federal is idiotic? 100 times? Try harder.

TurtleDude said:
your claim is dishonest because that median rate involves all taxes and you are not comparing Romney's total tax rate but rather federal income tax rate
Click to expand...

No, that is false. That is Romney's total taxes state and federal. People in his tier don't really pay state taxes. Sales and property and all that are irrelevant percentage wise at his point. But, he says flat out that he paid 15% total in taxes.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
TD how many times have I explained to you why just looking at federal is idiotic? 100 times? Try harder.



No, that is false. That is Romney's total taxes state and federal. People in his tier don't really pay state taxes. Sales and property and all that are irrelevant percentage wise at his point. But, he says flat out that he paid 15% total in taxes.
Click to expand...

gee but this thread is about Romney's federal tax rate

does he live in a state with income taxes? property taxes?

and who cares-its you lefties who whine about it

the fact is, HE PAYS THE TOP RATE IN EVERY TYPE OF PROGRESSIVE TAX
 
teamosil said:
The median effective tax rate in the US is 27%. That's how much the typical American pays between state and federal taxes. Megamillionaire robber baron Mitt Romney, however, only pays 15%.

That is not uncommon at all for the superrich. They do not pay many of the taxes middle class people pay at all- no FICA, no unemployment, no disability, etc. And many of the taxes that apply to a large portion of middle class's income- sales, property, vehicle, etc- apply to only a very tiny percentage of the income of someone as wealthy as Romney, so in effect, they don't really pay those either.

But, you might think, we have a progressive income tax system. Certainly the super rich get hit up on that one. But, nope, they don't. The progressive income tax system really only affects up to upper middle class people. People in really high paying jobs pay 35%, in addition to the other taxes listed above. But once you break past that into the super rich, they don't get paid in wages, they get paid with equity, and equity is only taxed at a measley 15%. So, in addition to being excused from most types of taxes, they get a 20% reduction in their tax break because they don't have to work to make their income.

Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes - CNN.com
Click to expand...
"Mega millionaire robber baron." Now that is funny. No spin whatsoever in this post. Nope, none.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
gee but this thread is about Romney's federal tax rate
Click to expand...

Dude. Read the part of the post you didn't bold before you reply. Try harder. I know you can do a better job than this.
 
FluffyNinja said:
"Mega millionaire robber baron." Now that is funny. No spin whatsoever in this post. Nope, none.
Click to expand...

"Robber baron" means something specific- people who buy companies and shut them down just to sell off the assets. That's not just spin, that is what his job was until he got into politics.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
TD how many times have I explained to you why just looking at federal is idiotic? 100 times? Try harder.



No, that is false. That is Romney's total taxes state and federal. People in his tier don't really pay state taxes. Sales and property and all that are irrelevant percentage wise at his point. But, he says flat out that he paid 15% total in taxes.
Click to expand...

from the article in the OP

Republican presidential front-runner Mitt Romney revealed Tuesday that he pays about a 15% income tax rate but continued to resist calls by his rivals to release his tax returns.

Now I don't see any reference to state taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, airport taxes, hotel taxes, vehicle registration taxes, business use taxes, firearms Robinson Pittman taxes

so you are either lying about the opening post's citation or you are citing some article without crediting it
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
Now I don't see any reference to state taxes
Click to expand...

Kiddo, you understand that it is just this weird malfunction you have where when you say "taxes" you just mean "federal taxes", right? He said "taxes". That means all taxes. I'll grant you that it is income taxes, not sales tax and whatnot, but obviously a megamillionaire only pays 0.001% of their income on sales taxes or whatever, so I guess you're wrong eh?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
TD how many times have I explained to you why just looking at federal is idiotic? 100 times? Try harder.

No, that is false. That is Romney's total taxes state and federal. People in his tier don't really pay state taxes. Sales and property and all that are irrelevant percentage wise at his point. But, he says flat out that he paid 15% total in taxes.
Click to expand...

Where are getting that this is his total taxes....state and Federal? Thin air. And where are you getting that "people in his tier don't really pay state taxes?"

he pegged his effective personal tax rate at close to 15 percent.
Click to expand...

Effective tax rate. Your effective tax rate is probably not even 5%. Why are people ignoring this fact? More fun to bash Romney? Good grief!

If you consider income tax liability alone, the average effective federal tax rate for people with incomes between $40,000 and $50,000, for instance, is just 3.2%, according to Tax Policy Center estimates. (In measuring income, the center uses gross income and adds to it other forms of compensation, such as the money your employer contributes to your retirement savings.) The lowest income families actually have negative average effective tax rates when income tax liability alone is measured. For families making $50,000 to $75,000, the effective tax rate is 5.7%. From $75,000 to $100,000, it's 7.2%. And if you make $200,000, it goes up to 9.9%.
Click to expand...

Hello? Anybody home?

Is Romney's effective tax rate lower than yours? - Jan. 18, 2012
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
Kiddo, you understand that it is just this weird malfunction you have where when you say "taxes" you just mean "federal taxes", right? He said "taxes". That means all taxes. I'll grant you that it is income taxes, not sales tax and whatnot, but obviously a megamillionaire only pays 0.001% of their income on sales taxes or whatever, so I guess you're wrong eh?
Click to expand...

you are just talking nonsense now-you get called on being dishonest and that is the best you can do
 
teamosil said:
"Robber baron" means something specific- people who buy companies and shut them down just to sell off the assets. That's not just spin, that is what his job was until he got into politics.
Click to expand...
So, under this line of reasoning, Barack Obama is nothing more than a megalomaniacal community organizer? Great qualifications for the current Commander In Chief, wouldn't you say?

Thanks for the history lesson by the way,..... champ. :thumbs:
 
Last edited:
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:
Where are getting that this is his total taxes....state and Federal? Thin air. And where are you getting that "people in his tier don't really pay state taxes?"



Effective tax rate. Your effective tax rate is probably not even 5%. Why are people ignoring this fact? More fun to bash Romney? Good grief!



Hello? Anybody home?

Is Romney's effective tax rate lower than yours? - Jan. 18, 2012
Click to expand...

I already posted the average effective income tax rate for various groups and if you pay an effective rate of 15% you aren't middle class-you are getting near the top one percent and you are over 200K
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

MaggieD said:
Where are getting that this is his total taxes....state and Federal? Thin air.
Click to expand...

Where you getting the idea that he is only talking about federal? He says his effective tax rate is only 15%, not that his federal effective tax rate is only 15?

MaggieD said:
And where are you getting that "people in his tier don't really pay state taxes?"
Click to expand...

State taxes are mostly regressive. For example, sales, property, unemployment, disability, etc. That means that the higher your income, the lower the percentage of that income you pay in those kinds of taxes. By the time you get up to Romney territory, it is like 0.0001% of your income or something.

MaggieD said:
Effective tax rate. Your effective tax rate is probably not even 5%. Why are people ignoring this fact? More fun to bash Romney? Good grief!
Click to expand...

No. Again, the median effective tax rate in the US is 27%. You appear to be thinking of the median FEDERAL effective tax rate. That is much lower. The reason is that state taxes are regressive, federal taxes are more progressive. So the median person mostly pays state taxes.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
Where you getting the idea that he is only talking about federal? He says his effective tax rate is only 15%, not that his federal effective tax rate is only 15?



State taxes are mostly regressive. For example, sales, property, unemployment, disability, etc. That means that the higher your income, the lower the percentage of that income you pay in those kinds of taxes. By the time you get up to Romney territory, it is like 0.0001% of your income or something.



No. Again, the median effective tax rate in the US is 27%. You appear to be thinking of the median FEDERAL effective tax rate. That is much lower. The reason is that state taxes are regressive, federal taxes are more progressive. So the median person mostly pays state taxes.
Click to expand...

stop the lying

this is what the article said


Republican presidential front-runner Mitt Romney revealed Tuesday that he pays about a 15% income tax rate but continued to resist calls by his rivals to release his tax returns.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
you are just talking nonsense now-you get called on being dishonest and that is the best you can do
Click to expand...

Show me where he said it was just federal or admit you're lying.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
stop the lying

this is what the article said


Republican presidential front-runner Mitt Romney revealed Tuesday that he pays about a 15% income tax rate but continued to resist calls by his rivals to release his tax returns.
Click to expand...

What is the matter with you? Read what you highlighted. Does that say "federal" anywhere?
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
Show me where he said it was just federal or admit you're lying.
Click to expand...

you are the one that claimed it included all taxes

I proved it was income tax and it was obviously federal

and you continue to play games with average median MARGINAL tax rate

when someone makes millions and millions their marginal and effective rate is almost the same. someone making it just into the 25% marginal rate is paying NO WHERE NEAR AN EFFECTIVE INCOME TAX rate of 25% because SO LITTLE OF THEIR INCOME IS TAXED at that TOP RATE.


the entire purpose of this thread was for the envious to whine that Romney doesn't pay as much taxes as the parasite mentality claims he should. and we have shown that he pays a far higher income tax rate than most people-higher than the middle class for example
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
Where you getting the idea that he is only talking about federal? He says his effective tax rate is only 15%, not that his federal effective tax rate is only 15?
Click to expand...

I don't know one accounting firm who figures one's effective tax rate including state taxes. You've made an assumption. Actually, both of us have. But let's neither one of us let that get in our way. ;)

State taxes are mostly regressive. For example, sales, property, unemployment, disability, etc. That means that the higher your income, the lower the percentage of that income you pay in those kinds of taxes. By the time you get up to Romney territory, it is like 0.0001% of your income or something.
Click to expand...

Now you're not even talking about state income tax??

No. Again, the median effective tax rate in the US is 27%. You appear to be thinking of the median FEDERAL effective tax rate. That is much lower. The reason is that state taxes are regressive, federal taxes are more progressive. So the median person mostly pays state taxes.
Click to expand...

If you're not going to believe information I posted from the Tax Policy Center, I don't know what to say. Oh, wait. How about a link? Romney was talking about his Federal effective tax rate. No one knows what their Federal/State/Local/Sales Tax/Property Tax/Unemployment/Etc/Etc rate is. No one.
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

teamosil said:
What is the matter with you? Read what you highlighted. Does that say "federal" anywhere?
Click to expand...

It sure as hell doesn't say this crap that you did

teamosil said:
TD how many times have I explained to you why just looking at federal is idiotic? 100 times? Try harder.



No, that is false. That is Romney's total taxes state and federal. People in his tier don't really pay state taxes. Sales and property and all that are irrelevant percentage wise at his point. But, he says flat out that he paid 15% total in taxes.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

TurtleDude said:
and it was obviously federal
Click to expand...

Why would he say that's what he pays in taxes if he just meant federal taxes? You think he's stupid or something? You think he doesn't understand that state taxes are taxes too?

TurtleDude said:
and you continue to play games with average median MARGINAL tax rate
Click to expand...

No, again, 27% is the median EFFECTIVE tax rate for an American.

You know what dude. I've said all these things to you like 10 times already. You're just doing that thing where you intentionally play an idiot to irritate me. I'm done replying to you again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom