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Thread: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

  1. #71
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    The 53k might be used some on rent and stuff, but I meant that the last figures I saw didn't include even the tools needed, just the raw materials. That is a flawed basis for comparison. I will check CBO tomorrow.
    Even if part of that $53k does go to thinks like tools, a business is still a lot better off in a society where the workers produce so much value that the company can afford to buy expensive tools though, right?

    For a point of comparison, how much luck do you think Bill Gates would have had launching Microsoft in Somalia? Not much. The reason is because all the things a society needs to sustain a company like Microsoft exist here, but not there. Those things take money to maintain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    Saying he pays 15% so he doesn't pay enough sounds right if you don't take in all the other factors, including the base dollar amount. Which is my problem with the "fair share" argument in general.
    I don't buy the base dollar amount argument. Or rather I think that is an argument why taxes should be MORE progressive, not less. It isn't like Romney created that money. If there were no Mitt Romney, it wouldn't just be like that money didn't exist. Maybe some of it- the money he actually produced with his own actual work. But the vast majority of it would still exist, it'd just be in somebody else's pocket. Bain would have had a different CEO, or some of those companies he shut down would still be paying people's paychecks, or who knows what, but the money would still be out there. So when he pays 15% and somebody else pays 30%, it isn't like we're benefiting from Romney paying 15%, we're losing 15% that we would have gotten in taxes had that other person ended up with the money instead of him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    A reroll isn't what's being discussed unless you plan to take away all current wealth and assets before getting rid of the police. Those who had an advantage still have one. Bonus points for the gaming reference, though.
    Well, a partial reroll then. Their advantages relative to the homeless guy are radically diminished without law and order. All their money- which is really just numbers in a computer somewhere- doesn't even necessarily mean anything at all without a system of laws. Probably their only real advantage would be that there would probably be more to barter with in Gates' mansion than the homeless guy has in his cart. But then again, the homeless guy is better at finding food...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    Fair point on internet, but then you get into how much amazon pays in taxes vs. your grandmother :P
    Amazon paid 4% taxes... So basically no taxes. Despite a $3.5 billion profit.

    The 16 Profitable Companies That Pay Almost Nothing In Taxes

    I don't know how much my grandmother paid... Safe bet it is a much higher percentage than that although obviously a lower absolute amount.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    My last point was only to clarify why regressive isn't a proper terminology. He certainly does pay less than the 99% combined in consumption tax, but he pays more than any individual because he uses more. Are you proposing a tax that costs more for consumption as you buy more or eliminating sales tax in favor of income tax? I don't understand what the proposal is to rectify this. Overall, he's still paying fortunes more than others and not necessarily seeing a proportionate gain.
    I support eliminating the sales tax because it is regressive relative to income.

  2. #72
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The median effective tax rate in the US is 27%. That's how much the typical American pays between state and federal taxes. Megamillionaire robber baron Mitt Romney, however, only pays 15%.

    That is not uncommon at all for the superrich. They do not pay many of the taxes middle class people pay at all- no FICA, no unemployment, no disability, etc. And many of the taxes that apply to a large portion of middle class's income- sales, property, vehicle, etc- apply to only a very tiny percentage of the income of someone as wealthy as Romney, so in effect, they don't really pay those either.

    But, you might think, we have a progressive income tax system. Certainly the super rich get hit up on that one. But, nope, they don't. The progressive income tax system really only affects up to upper middle class people. People in really high paying jobs pay 35%, in addition to the other taxes listed above. But once you break past that into the super rich, they don't get paid in wages, they get paid with equity, and equity is only taxed at a measley 15%. So, in addition to being excused from most types of taxes, they get a 20% reduction in their tax break because they don't have to work to make their income.

    Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes - CNN.com
    No wonder Romney didn't want to release his tax records! And no wonder he supports continuing the tax breaks for the wealthy!
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Romney wants to make a good thing better for himself and his 1% buddies, to hell with the National Debt and the middle class that is stuck paying for it:

    Report says Romney, Gingrich and Perry tax plans add billions to deficit, favor the rich

    "The latest analysis from the group, a joint venture of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution think tanks, found the Romney plan would lower federal revenues by $600 billion in 2015."

    "According to the Tax Policy Center, the tax cuts in Romney's plan go disproportionately to the highest earners. Those making more than $1 million would see an average tax cut of more than $295,000, while those making less than $40,000 would see an average tax cut of less than $1,000."

    Report says Romney, Gingrich and Perry tax plans add billions to deficit, favor the rich - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No wonder Romney didn't want to release his tax records! And no wonder he supports continuing the tax breaks for the wealthy!
    The tax returns would not only show how much he pays in FIT, but it would also show where he earned the money. There are reports he still gets money from Bain Capital.


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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    doing well, working hard and making money appears to be seen as an attack on the unproductive by those who hate the industrious
    hmmm.........


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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    They only call it class warfare when we fight back.

    Fight back??? Are you kidding here? You already have nearly half the country paying NO Federal income tax what so ever, and 45 MILLION on food stamps.

    Why don't you liberal progressives let the "poor" off of the Plantation of poverty that you keep them on for a vote, and let them be self sufficient....This rhetoric of demonizing wealth, and heck even making a living in today's Obama wasteland is already wearing thin, and making you all look foolish.


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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    The tax returns would not only show how much he pays in FIT, but it would also show where he earned the money. There are reports he still gets money from Bain Capital.

    Romney should release his tax records as soon as Obama releases his Collage transcripts, and donor list from the '08 elections.


    j-mac
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    They really should have added Obama's past tax returns to this. I think he was around 33% in 2010, but don't quote me on this.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Oh dear god I'm getting taxed twice not only when I pay income tax but also when I pay sales tax!
    at one point you could deduct sales taxes from your federal income tax. Of course that involved an actual separate transaction

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Your assumption is that benefit can be measured in a straight-line calculation, which is obviously not the case.
    an interesting way of admitting the claim that the rich "pull more benefits" from society is pure bunk but I agree with you.

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