Absolutely false. I suppose fascists, communists, and liberals are all the same to you. You've demonstrated this multiple times. And try to find somebody with more right-wing views than you on the economy. Maybe the An-Caps, but that's about it. This officially makes you far-right.Originally Posted by TurtleDude
Nope. Clinton is slightly right of Obama, and Obama himself is slightly right of center with respect to the universal political center (i.e. planned economy on the far-left, unrestrained economy on the far-right).Originally Posted by TurtleDude
EDIT: Do you mean Bill Clinton, or Hillary Clinton. I answered for Hillary but I'm not sure of Bill's position.
They come from different strands of thought. They are actually very different. Just ask a communist how much he has in common with liberalism, and you won't find much. Fascists hold an opposition to virtually everything, especially communism and libertarianism.Originally Posted by TurtleDude
Last edited by JustinS; 01-21-12 at 10:21 AM.
one of the things the far left does is try to impose --as the proper paradigm--the entire spectrum of various political philosophies or those of europe on the USA to try to pretend Obama is center. The fact is, in terms of workable political orientations in the USA, Obama is among the farthest left that has ever won a major office
anything that makes the individual subordinate to the state ends up being rather similar in practice. Stalinist Russian and Nazi Germany pretty much did the same thing -piled up lots of innocent bodies
No he's not. If you are calling Obama far-left in American terms, then you are lumping him together with Dennis Kucinich and Bernie Sanders. He is obviously right of them, so it is impossible to lump him into this group and call him far-left. And I'm not a far-leftist.Originally Posted by TurtleDude
They had different policies. It's the realpolitik that you're comparing, not the economics.Originally Posted by TurtleDude
Last edited by JustinS; 01-21-12 at 10:31 AM.
The really sad indictment of American politics today is the reality evidenced in this thread of just how far right the conservative movement has gone. When someone like Obama is considered to be the most radical president we ever had and anyone not on the far right of the spectrum is lumped together as the enemy, it clearly shows just how far down the rabbit hole the warriors of the right have fallen in the last decade or two. Even Reagan would not recognize them any longer.
And notice how they attempt to argue here. They abhor verifiable evidence from the actual historical record in favor of pontificating about their own beliefs and their own conclusions drawn from a faulty and seriously flawed understanding of actual history. They have drunk so much right wing kool aid that their ability to actually deal with anything but right wing propaganda has been irredeemably damaged.
On one hand, they claim that we progressives attack the wealthy but they can show no actual proof of any real attacks beyond mere discussion of tax policy which is right and proper. Then, they themselves criticize the very wealthy and actually float the preposterous premise that they too are against the rest of the wealthy. Make up you mind for heavens sake.
They whine and bitch about class warfare against the rich at the time when taxes upon that class are the lowest in modern history and one of their very own admits that the real class warfare is being waged by the rich against everyone else - and they are winning bigtime.
They have no problem attempting to justify their beliefs with letters written by one member of the Constitutional Convention who gives their personal opinion on issues - but then are quick to dismiss the actual words contained in the Constitution itself as to the purpose of both government and the Constitution which creates that same government. Amazing. Or it would be if we had not seen it time and time and time again.
It is just one denial of reality upon another in favor of axioms as part of what they believe because they want to believe it.
Last edited by haymarket; 01-21-12 at 10:52 AM.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers
the GOP isn't much different than Reagan or W. The dems on the other hand are far far away more leftwing than Carter, Clinton or Gore (most of Gore's time in office)