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Thread: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

  1. #51
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that is one of the most moronic assumptions in the tax debate-that the rich "are pulling more benefit" out of society. In reality they do far more to benefit society before we even start to talk about taxes

    its a lie the left invented to serve as a facade to hide the "from each according to their ability" nonsense

    if you want to base taxes on what people use than you would have to admit that the millions who pay no income taxes use far more than one millionaire which would destroy that basis for your tax "fairness" nonsense
    Your assumption is that benefit can be measured in a straight-line calculation, which is obviously not the case.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Looking only at federal income taxes is a deception. That is less than half of all taxes. It is the only progressive tax in the system. It is progressive in part because it has to offset the bulk of other taxes that are regressive. If you look at all taxes, they pay a much smaller percentage. If you looked at what percentage of sales taxes different brackets pay you'd find that the middle class pay like 90% of sales taxes and the top 1% pay only maybe 2% of them for example. You couldn't draw conclusions about what share of the taxes the rich pay overall based on that alone either.



    Why is it not fair? By definition they're pulling more benefit out of society. Why shouldn't they have to chip more back in to keep the society they're reaping that benefit from strong?
    Though TD has a stronger wording, I am inclined to agree with him. Logically, they use less of the resources. They don't receive any of the federal money. They pay for the education of their employees through wages, they pay gasoline and road taxes for any supplies they ship, etc. I could get into all of it, but in reality, the only gains they make for it being an educated and safe society are the same gains everyone else makes individually and they pay more for it.

    As for the sales tax, they pay for what they consume. My guess is that a 1-on-1 comparison shows the wealthy person paying far more due to fancier houses and cars. Paying the same percentage is not regressive, it's flat. The argument that they can afford more is irrelevant to that issue. They still pay higher taxes overall by far and states do have the option to drop sales tax in favor of income tax.
    Omniscience just sucks without omnipotence!

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Is Romney breaking any laws with his tax rate of 15%? If not then what's the problem? (aside from envy of course)
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    Though TD has a stronger wording, I am inclined to agree with him.
    You don't want to hitch your cart to that horse. I'm not replying to him because we've had that same debate like 500 times. Every time he is unable to come up with counter arguments to all the arguments people present on it and just goes off to another tread to claim the same thing over again... I suspect he's doing it intentionally to annoy people at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    Logically, they use less of the resources. They don't receive any of the federal money. They pay for the education of their employees through wages, they pay gasoline and road taxes for any supplies they ship, etc. I could get into all of it, but in reality, the only gains they make for it being an educated and safe society are the same gains everyone else makes individually and they pay more for it.
    No, the gains they draw from it are not nearly the same. For example, the stimulus spending appears to have boosted the stock market by approximately 25%. So Bill Gates drew roughly $10 billion in benefit from that. How much benefit did the average taxpayer get out of the stimulus? Maybe they got a new job a few weeks earlier because of it? Or maybe not even that?

    Companies require a large, educated, prosperous, society to make money. They need customers that can afford to buy their product, employees that are educated enough to do the job, employees that are healthy enough to work, etc. You're right that they pay the employees, but that doesn't mean they don't benefit from them being educated and whatnot. The median productivity of an American worker is an outstanding $97k/year. That's how much value they bring to their employer. But the median compensation is only $44k/year. So, the employer is keeping more than half of the value employees generate. So, roughly, each person gets half the value of their education, but their employer is collecting the other half.

    On top of that, you have things like defense, police, and fire. Those things benefit the super rich because they have more to protect. The homeless guy on the street would probably be better off if there were no police, where Bill Gates would be like $40 billion worse off. So, the value of police to Bill Gates is much greater.

    Also, you have infrastructure. A company that runs heavy semi trucks all over the country is drawing way more benefit from the highways. An office in Nevada gets way more benefit out of the electricity of the Hoover Dam than an individual does. The internet has done a smidge more for amazon.com than it has done for my grandmother. And so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    As for the sales tax, they pay for what they consume. My guess is that a 1-on-1 comparison shows the wealthy person paying far more due to fancier houses and cars. Paying the same percentage is not regressive, it's flat. The argument that they can afford more is irrelevant to that issue. They still pay higher taxes overall by far and states do have the option to drop sales tax in favor of income tax.
    "Regressive" means "a lower percentage of their income". At least that's the common usage of it. If you want to talk about what percentage of Romney's income he pays in taxes and compare that to the percentage the middle class pays, you can't really exclude those taxes that the middle class pays more of. That's just distorting the comparison.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Is Romney breaking any laws with his tax rate of 15%? If not then what's the problem? (aside from envy of course)
    No, not breaking any laws. The problem for his campaign is that a lot of folks who bust their humps just to get by and pay over 20% aren't thrilled with the vision of guy worth a quarter billion and earning millions a year to sit on his ass and pay 15%. More a fairness issue than an envy issue.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Is Romney breaking any laws with his tax rate of 15%? If not then what's the problem? (aside from envy of course)
    Envy? Seriously, you're going with that old canard?

    The problem is that we have $14 trillion in debt and are considering cuts to spending that will cripple the middle class just so this guy and those like him can have a ridiculously low tax rate.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Is Romney breaking any laws with his tax rate of 15%? If not then what's the problem? (aside from envy of course)
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    No, not breaking any laws. The problem for his campaign is that a lot of folks who bust their humps just to get by and pay over 20% aren't thrilled with the vision of guy worth a quarter billion and earning millions a year to sit on his ass and pay 15%. More a fairness issue than an envy issue.
    Well, not just that they aren't trilled about it. They aren't going to listen to a guy whose career has been focused on destroying jobs and who pays half the taxes they do preaching about how "job creators" are "paying their fair share already". His own example kills his rhetoric.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    When I read posts that seem to protest the 1% or even top 10%, over envy or 'social injustice' or whatever, I ponder a hypothetical. What would happen to the 53% or 99% if they, the 'top bracket' decided to withdraw all their money from the economy and ‘stuff it in the mattress’ (gone Galt for those who understand)? Who would lose their jobs? How/who would the government tax then? What percentage would the 53% or 99% have to pay then?

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Envy? Seriously, you're going with that old canard?

    .
    Ya know my x girlfriend always had to be "sicker" than I was.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    When I read posts that seem to protest the 1% or even top 10%, over envy or 'social injustice' or whatever, I ponder a hypothetical. What would happen to the 53% or 99% if they, the 'top bracket' decided to withdraw all their money from the economy and ‘stuff it in the mattress’ (gone Galt for those who understand)? Who would lose their jobs? How/who would the government tax then? What percentage would the 53% or 99% have to pay then?
    When you're playing your "what if" games, do you also wonder what would happen if the 99% decided to boycott the businesses that those wealthy folks use to support their lifestyles?

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