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Thread: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

  1. #441
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    My ability is the same as all Americans, the right to vote how we want our country run, that includes tax rates. From all the polls this year, it appears the great majority of Americans have decided that continuing the tax cuts for the rich is of no benefit to the economy or the majority of the people in this country.
    this is another idiotic claim. that most people want others to be taxed more to pay for the stuff they want is neither surprising nor a valid argument. I bet most people would want the rich to pay all their bills for them if they could get away with it.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    everybody wanna go to heaven

    nobody wanna die!!

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Since you appear to be criticizing my posts, please provide proof of your charges or have the decency to retract them.

    If we have indeed fallen so far down the ideological rabbit hole that now someone wanting a rational discussion of national tax policy is tagged with being FAR LEFT it shows just how hopeless this situation has become.

    Q: Why don't you defend the policy instead of making ad hominem attacks on me and others here who want a rational discussion of national tax policy?
    A: Defending the tactics of the right by attacking their critics is the favored methodology as opposed to defending a indefensible policy which benefits a relatively small minority.
    This thread is not about a national tax policy, as you would pretend in this post, it is about tax policy as it relates to an individual who happens, by no small coincidence, to be a Presidential candidate.

    This is yet another example of how the left tries to skew the debate in other self righteous directions and then, when exposed, claim they were unjustifiably wronged.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    from j-mac

    However, you are kind of proving my point in your opening by placing all of the blame on your ideological opponents here. It may be true that some on the right at times tend to go overboard in their arguments, sometimes to the exclusion of considering facts that are not convenient to the argument. But I see that on BOTH sides of the argument at times.
    There is little dispute that the Republican party has swung far to the right over the last decade - perhaps longer. Democrats, on the other hand, have not swung to the far left as a balance. In fact, the opposite has happened. How many Democrats today stand up for gun control - once a major liberal cause? You cannot even get a resolution introduced after a twenty person massacre these days the pendulum has swung so far to the right.

    Once Democrats were strong opposing foreign wars like Viet Nam. Very few today make an issue of it.

    Once Democrats vigorously defended organized labor. Even with huge majorities in the Congress in the first two years of Obama they failed to push the check off system that unions wanted.

    Democrats have caved on tax increases for the wealthy.

    They have caved on popping the cap on Social Security contributions.

    Sorry, but the record shows no corresponding radicalization of the left of the Democratic Party - just the opposite in fact.


    Well, I can understand why you see that, and you should be aware then also that we on the right see the exact same things coming out of the progressive left, so to speak. For example, taxes are too low, Federal government is supreme over localities, (Even though I believe that the power of the Federal Government is derived from the states, not the other way around), Global Warming, Eco-greenism, general nanny statist function that saps the power of the individual are also promoted by progressives like religious dogma, and in many cases they permeate discussion, and destroy it equally.
    We do not accept as a truism that taxes are too low. We look at current levels, compare them to the levels of the last sixty years and make a factual conclusion that they are among the lowest at this time than at any time in the last sixty years for many people. Capital gains included in that low figure. That is not a statement of faith like "low taxes are the best". It is simply a statement of historical fact that is verified by reality.

    As a progressive, I do not believe the federal government is supreme. There is a separation of powers and each of the three levels has their domain and proper powers.

    I have never known what the nanny state charge means. It is so vague and over the top as to be meaningless.
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    dems realize gun control cost them congress in 1994. Believe me, if they thought they could ban guns and not lose offices they would go for it.

    the fact remains that the dems-who have as many or more uber wealthy politicians-realize that to win office they have to pander to the poor, the envious and others who are seduced by the claims that the rich don't pay enough taxes. for rich dems, paying more taxes is worth it if they get the wealth and power that comes from holding public office.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    dems realize gun control cost them congress in 1994. Believe me, if they thought they could ban guns and not lose offices they would go for it.

    the fact remains that the dems-who have as many or more uber wealthy politicians-realize that to win office they have to pander to the poor, the envious and others who are seduced by the claims that the rich don't pay enough taxes. for rich dems, paying more taxes is worth it if they get the wealth and power that comes from holding public office.
    The point seems to be eluding you.

    The Republicans have shifted to the right over the past decade or two while the dems have also moved to the right from where they were as evidenced by the several issues I pointed out and nobody took issue with. In fact, Turtle admitted the Dems moved to the center on gun control.

    Turtle, please show - FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME IN SEVEN YEARS - with verifiable evidence - proof of your claims of democrats pandering as you constantly allege.
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    There is little dispute that the Republican party has swung far to the right over the last decade - perhaps longer.
    Maybe in your eyes, and in the eyes of political progressives that would like to see their opposition disappear. Not to me brother.

    Democrats, on the other hand, have not swung to the far left as a balance. In fact, the opposite has happened.
    How can you say that as liberal progressive demo's wage a virtual war against the very system in this country that made us great?

    How many Democrats today stand up for gun control - once a major liberal cause? You cannot even get a resolution introduced after a twenty person massacre these days the pendulum has swung so far to the right.
    Maybe they realized that it was a losing stance, or maybe they realize that what comes with their "fundamental change" is the need for self protection. Who knows, but the bigger issue is what they want to destroy in terms of what kind of nation we are.

    Once Democrats were strong opposing foreign wars like Viet Nam. Very few today make an issue of it.
    Only because it is Obama in office. What gives you the idea that Demo's are against war anyway? Nearly every conflict we have been involved in over the past 60 years has been waged by a demo.

    Once Democrats vigorously defended organized labor. Even with huge majorities in the Congress in the first two years of Obama they failed to push the check off system that unions wanted.
    No way they could get it through legitimately, so instead they subverted the NLRB and are pushing it through regulation against the will of the people.

    Sorry, but the record shows no corresponding radicalization of the left of the Democratic Party - just the opposite in fact.
    Please. spare us. Just visit any collage campus these days.

    We do not accept as a truism that taxes are too low. We look at current levels, compare them to the levels of the last sixty years and make a factual conclusion that they are among the lowest at this time than at any time in the last sixty years for many people. Capital gains included in that low figure. That is not a statement of faith like "low taxes are the best". It is simply a statement of historical fact that is verified by reality.
    So what if they are the lowest in history? If that is even true. But the premise being set up by you, is already that if I don't agree with you then I am not being realistic.

    As a progressive, I do not believe the federal government is supreme. There is a separation of powers and each of the three levels has their domain and proper powers.
    Give me a break...Were you not recently cheer leading Obama's non recess, recess appointments? That is not respecting anything at all to do with the separation of powers.

    I have never known what the nanny state charge means. It is so vague and over the top as to be meaningless.
    It's not meaningless. That you don't understand it is clear evidence of the utter dishonesty that is progressivism.


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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    I see nothing in that post which shows any factual evidence which disproves my two points
    1- the GOP has turned to the right over the past two decades
    2- the Democrats have turned more to the center over the past decade

    You showing that some progressives on college campuses may be leftish does not reflect on the Democrats in power.

    The fact is that the Democrats have caved in on taxing the rich.
    They have caved in on support for foreign wars which are unnecessary.
    They have caved in on the defense budget.
    They have caved in on things like the Patriot Act.
    They have caved in on gun control.
    They have caved in on union rights and the card check system despite having big majorities in both houses.

    In each and every case they moved from a progressive position to caving in to the right.

    I see you were unable to clarify what that meaningless nanny state nonsense means. Join the crowd.
    Last edited by haymarket; 01-20-12 at 07:08 PM.
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    To those who have consistently claimed in this post that their effective tax rate is 15% or even higher, please do the math on your own tax return so you don't continue to look foolish. Here's his tax return: http://www.newt.org/sites/newt.org/f...eTaxReturn.pdf

    Take Line 60 of your own return and divide it by Line 37. Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Mine's never been above 10.7%.
    No, you also need to add in sales taxes, unemployment, disability, FICA, property taxes, vehicle registration taxes, etc. You're just looking only at federal income taxes. This should give you a rough idea of what you pay total:

    If you made $12,500 in 2010, you paid: 16.2% total
    $25,300: 20.7%
    $40,700: 25.1%
    $66,300: 28.5%
    $100,000: 30%

    http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2011.pdf

    See, Romney doesn't need to calculate any of those other taxes in because at his tier the things like sales, property, FICA, etc, amount to effectively 0% of his income, but at lower incomes they can take quite a big bite out of your paycheck.
    Last edited by teamosil; 01-20-12 at 07:40 PM.

  10. #450
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    Re: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    So he admits to paying 15% on money he invested that he was already taxed 30% on?
    Not sure what you mean. The money he put in to invest he was never taxed on again. The profits off of those investments he was taxed on.

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