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Thread: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

  1. #421
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Here's a few examples that were easily found:







    And this one seems especially fitting.........



    You were correct for a change.
    How is criticizing the lack of fair journalism on FOX not a fit subject for debate? And how is someone using shoddy journalism from that source not a fit subject for debate.
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    How is criticizing the lack of fair journalism on FOX not a fit subject for debate? And how is someone using shoddy journalism from that source not a fit subject for debate.
    How is criticizing the lack of fair journalism in Slate and the Daily Beast not a fit subject for debate??? And how is someone using shoddy journalism from those sources not a fit subject for debate ??

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Since you appear to be criticizing my posts, please provide proof of your charges or have the decency to retract them.

    So now anyone whom dares to criticize a posting from you needs to include any and all previous posting from you that brings one to the conclusion that they have of your posts? Is that how you proceed when being critical of another poster in here that is opposing you ideologically? Not from what I have seen from you, but that is just my opinion so I won't be giving you several thousand links of your own words. So, if "decency" is what you seek now, I applaud that, and will look for you to set that standard.

    If we have indeed fallen so far down the ideological rabbit hole that now someone wanting a rational discussion of national tax policy is tagged with being FAR LEFT it shows just how hopeless this situation has become.
    Yes, it is true that the ideological sides of any particular argument have widened, and entrenched deeper into their own views without any real willingness to accept the others points of view as being even remotely valid. Do you think that is a problem that is only suffered by your opponents? Or can you step back and possibly look and see that this was possibly intentionally stoked for political purposes on both sides at different times?

    Q: Why don't you defend the policy instead of making ad hominem attacks on me and others here who want a rational discussion of national tax policy?
    We ought to scrap the current tax codes. Eliminate the IRS, and make tax policy simpler. Example, Everyone, and I do mean everyone should pay say a flat 15% on income, and instead of withholding from paychecks they should have to send it in three days before any election.

    A: Defending the tactics of the right by attacking their critics is the favored methodology as opposed to defending a indefensible policy which benefits a relatively small minority.
    Are you really saying that the liberal left doesn't do this exact same thing? Or is it that you are only bitching about a particular tactic, commonly used, because you find that tactic effective, but only if you can use it?

    j-mac
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    How is criticizing the lack of fair journalism in Slate and the Daily Beast not a fit subject for debate??? And how is someone using shoddy journalism from those sources not a fit subject for debate ??
    By all means - if I use something from those sources and you find something wrong in it, present what you think is wrong and the evidence as to why.
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    How is criticizing the lack of fair journalism in Slate and the Daily Beast not a fit subject for debate??? And how is someone using shoddy journalism from those sources not a fit subject for debate ??
    By all means - if I use something from those sources and you find something wrong in it, present what you think is wrong and the evidence as to why.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    from j-mac

    Yes, it is true that the ideological sides of any particular argument have widened, and entrenched deeper into their own views without any real willingness to accept the others points of view as being even remotely valid. Do you think that is a problem that is only suffered by your opponents? Or can you step back and possibly look and see that this was possibly intentionally stoked for political purposes on both sides at different times?
    The loss of a middle adds to the problem. But to give you a really honest and frank answer that you are not going to like - yes indeedy - I think the lions share of the problem is because the right wing has embraced various beliefs in the way a zealot embraces religion. The right believes what it wants to believe because it is convenient for them to believe it. An example is the truisms they constantly float that small government is good and lower taxes are good and local government is better than national government. There are a bunch of axioms like that that have adopted on a level like religious tenets and they permeate the discussion and poison it.

    Progressives like myself do not believe in big government. We simply want government that works.
    Progressives like myself do not believe that lower taxes are good are higher taxes are good. We simply want a tax system that works for a sustainable society.
    Progressives like myself do not rank any hierarchy of local, state or national government as which is the best and most desirable. We simply want government to work.

    So yes - I do think the lions share of the problem is the increasing radicalization of the conservative wing of this nation. I see no corresponding radicalization of the left wing - in fact - most of us on the left complain about the toothless lion of democratic politics.
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    from j-mac



    The loss of a middle adds to the problem. But to give you a really honest and frank answer that you are not going to like - yes indeedy - I think the lions share of the problem is because the right wing has embraced various beliefs in the way a zealot embraces religion. The right believes what it wants to believe because it is convenient for them to believe it. An example is the truisms they constantly float that small government is good and lower taxes are good and local government is better than national government. There are a bunch of axioms like that that have adopted on a level like religious tenets and they permeate the discussion and poison it.

    Progressives like myself do not believe in big government. We simply want government that works.
    Progressives like myself do not believe that lower taxes are good are higher taxes are good. We simply want a tax system that works for a sustainable society.
    Progressives like myself do not rank any hierarchy of local, state or national government as which is the best and most desirable. We simply want government to work.

    So yes - I do think the lions share of the problem is the increasing radicalization of the conservative wing of this nation. I see no corresponding radicalization of the left wing - in fact - most of us on the left complain about the toothless lion of democratic politics.
    Yep, there's a problem and it's not my fault. You sound just like your president.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Yep, there's a problem and it's not my fault. You sound just like your president.
    By all means please identify that problem.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    They only call it class warfare when we fight back.
    T'ats right! Dem libearl fatcats don' pay alot 'n taxes an' shor should be paying mor' like us po' folk.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The loss of a middle adds to the problem. But to give you a really honest and frank answer that you are not going to like - yes indeedy - I think the lions share of the problem is because the right wing has embraced various beliefs in the way a zealot embraces religion...
    The loss of a middle is indeed a problem, and that we have agreement on. But, it is not that I "dislike" your answers, in fact I appreciate when we stop the noise, and have true discussion like this. If you notice, I really try to dial it back and discuss when the opportunity presents, as it does at this moment.

    However, you are kind of proving my point in your opening by placing all of the blame on your ideological opponents here. It may be true that some on the right at times tend to go overboard in their arguments, sometimes to the exclusion of considering facts that are not convenient to the argument. But I see that on BOTH sides of the argument at times.

    An example is the truisms they constantly float that small government is good and lower taxes are good and local government is better than national government. There are a bunch of axioms like that that have adopted on a level like religious tenets and they permeate the discussion and poison it.
    Well, I can understand why you see that, and you should be aware then also that we on the right see the exact same things coming out of the progressive left, so to speak. For example, taxes are too low, Federal government is supreme over localities, (Even though I believe that the power of the Federal Government is derived from the states, not the other way around), Global Warming, Eco-greenism, general nanny statist function that saps the power of the individual are also promoted by progressives like religious dogma, and in many cases they permeate discussion, and destroy it equally.

    Progressives like myself do not believe in big government. We simply want government that works.
    Maybe that is true for you, and quite possibly you are not a classical progressive either. I don't know, because I don't know you personally. But, from what I see of progressives today, they are exactly opposite of what you are describing.

    Progressives like myself do not believe that lower taxes are good and higher taxes are good. We simply want a tax system that works for a sustainable society.
    Then how does this work with the sentence that I quoted above? Unless you are saying that in order for "government to work" that it must be involved in nearly every decision that a person contemplates, because people are stupid. Is that it?

    Progressives like myself do not rank any hierarchy of local, state or national government as which is the best and most desirable. We simply want government to work.
    I don't believe that at all. Largely because I have never seen a progressive that doesn't advocate larger more intrusive big government. We do have historical example of how that large intrusive government control fails. So why keep pushing for it?

    So yes - I do think the lions share of the problem is the increasing radicalization of the conservative wing of this nation. I see no corresponding radicalization of the left wing - in fact - most of us on the left complain about the toothless lion of democratic politics.

    So then we are back to, it being solely a conservative problem eh? No introspection, no trying to meet half way in the order of truthful self examination? Just back to all a one sided problem? That is why we will continue to have barely coherent discussion through the insulting banter that really does little more than pass time, and in the end regurgitate the respective talking points of either side. And here I thought it was a real inroad, when in fact it was just a long post to say....."It's all their fault"

    Thanks.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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