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Thread: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

  1. #341
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Most of the biggest investors invest other peoples money. As far as Romney specifically:

    "One of the reasons Romney is able to drive his tax rate down so low is that he is still earning money from his private equity firm, Bain Capital, that is likely subject to a pernicious tax loophole. This loophole lets wealthy money mangers like Romney pay the capital gains tax rate on profits they make investing other people’s money, turning the justification for having a lower capital gains tax rate completely on its head."


    Romney Admits His Tax Rate Is About 15 Percent, Lower Than Many Middle Class Families | ThinkProgress
    Yes, this applies to professional fund managers, especially in the hedge fund and private equity business who typically charge a 20% performance fee. My question was regarding all wealthy people who make money on their investments, not just professional investors. Where do rich people who pay a 15% capital gains tax get their capital?

    On a side note, who do you anticipate the biggest investors in those funds are? Why ignore the recipients of the large share (80%) of profits to focus on the one's who generated it?
    "There is an excellent correlation between giving society what it wants and making money, and almost no correlation between the desire to make money and how much money one makes." ~Dalio

  2. #342
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It is quite obvious that the answer if #1. #2 is what you stepped into and cannot shake it off Turtle. We know you believe it but you have NEVER made a real case as to why the rte for long term capital gains should be well less than half for what it is for the same income. You have NEVER done this.

    Again, lets take two people
    1) Ron Jones who is a record producer whose annual salary is $800,000.00. He pays 35%. His tax bill - assuming no deductions - is $280,000.00.
    2) Hank Tonkin who is an investor and who make $800,000.00 last year in long term capital gains. He pays 15%. His tax bill - assuming no dedictions - is $120,000.00.

    Now justify that please? Tell us what a nation of 311 million people, should have such a discriminatory preference as part of our nation tax policy and law.
    so I am waiting for you to rebut the reasons why the GOVERNMENT's reasons for different treatment is wrong

    and you are not against DISCRIMINATORY TAXATION-you like the progressive system when it means the rich pay more of each dollar in income taxes

  3. #343
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so I am waiting for you to rebut the reasons why the GOVERNMENT's reasons for different treatment is wrong

    and you are not against DISCRIMINATORY TAXATION-you like the progressive system when it means the rich pay more of each dollar in income taxes
    Could you link to your argument please? I am not aware of it.

    How many times have I and others explained to you the difference between giving preferenital discriminatory rates to SOURCES of income and the difference between progressive tax rates? You keep confusing apples with cinder blocks and just cannot seem to figure out why you keep chipping your teeth on that hard grey pie filling.
    Last edited by haymarket; 01-19-12 at 01:27 PM.
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Could you link to your argument please? I am not aware of it.

    How many times have I and others explained to you the difference between giving preferenital discriminatory rates to SOURCES of income and the difference between progressive tax rates? You keep confusing apples with cinder blocks and just cannot seem to figure out why you keep chipping your teeth on that hard grey pie filling.
    SO YOU are in favor of some types of discrimination that are applied by the government and against others.

    You just believe that whatever causes the rich to pay more and more is good

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Just because an employer pays for something doesn't mean they don't benefit from it. The median productivity of an American worker is $97k/year, but the median compensation is only $44k/year. So, for every year an employee works, on average, the employee gets $44k of the value they create, the employer gets $53k of the value they create.
    Sorry if I missed it, but do you have a link for this? In my experience, revenue per person, minus per person compensation, does not equal "what the employer gets". There are more expenses than just payroll, so why do you think the company gets the remainder? It all depends on the company margins. Most industries see something more around 15% of revenue. Markets drive this by the way, and there is *no better system* to drive that.

    People who bust ass and drive the economy, get paid a lot, that's as it should be. Even high pay is not enough to get most people to try hard, the vast majority of people prefer a far more passive, less risky, and lower income career.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    SO YOU are in favor of some types of discrimination that are applied by the government and against others.

    You just believe that whatever causes the rich to pay more and more is good
    You challenged me to refute your argument. Fine. Please link to it.
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Again, lets take two people
    1) Ron Jones who is a record producer whose annual salary is $800,000.00. He pays 35%. His tax bill - assuming no deductions - is $280,000.00.
    2) Hank Tonkin who is an investor and who make $800,000.00 last year in long term capital gains. He pays 15%. His tax bill - assuming no dedictions - is $120,000.00.
    That $800,000 would have to be from investments from prior years in order to qualify for the LTCG. Let me ask a clarifying question, with what money did he earn the $800,000 with?
    "There is an excellent correlation between giving society what it wants and making money, and almost no correlation between the desire to make money and how much money one makes." ~Dalio

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    Yes, this applies to professional fund managers, especially in the hedge fund and private equity business who typically charge a 20% performance fee. My question was regarding all wealthy people who make money on their investments, not just professional investors. Where do rich people who pay a 15% capital gains tax get their capital?

    On a side note, who do you anticipate the biggest investors in those funds are? Why ignore the recipients of the large share (80%) of profits to focus on the one's who generated it?
    This is only an issue for those who make most of their income from investments as Romney did. They are the ones that enjoy a lower tax rate than the middle class.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #349
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    That $800,000 would have to be from investments from prior years in order to qualify for the LTCG. Let me ask a clarifying question, with what money did he earn the $800,000 with?
    why does that matter? he's not being taxed twice on it.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  10. #350
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    That $800,000 would have to be from investments from prior years in order to qualify for the LTCG. Let me ask a clarifying question, with what money did he earn the $800,000 with?
    Money he grew on the money tree in the back yard. Who cares? Money is money - income is income. I don't care where it comes from and neither should the government.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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