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Thread: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    The employer is paying for what the employees' educations provide his company. You distinguish this from "buying things..." you say "When you're buying things, for every $1 you spend you get $1 back." When you employ people, you pay for their KSAs and labor.

    You're just making stuff up as you go.
    Just because an employer pays for something doesn't mean they don't benefit from it. The median productivity of an American worker is $97k/year, but the median compensation is only $44k/year. So, for every year an employee works, on average, the employee gets $44k of the value they create, the employer gets $53k of the value they create. If the employee were less educated, and less productive as a result, both the employer and the employee would make less off of his work.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    If I had a dog and a cat, and I said "my pets are hungry" would you assume I just meant my dog?
    No because you used the word "pets", that is plural.

    Sorry you don't see that the article from the OP is about federal tax rates and what rich people pay (Romney). You may not like it but until the federal tax laws change, Ramney, Obama, Pelosi, et.al have done nothing wrong as long as they are in complaince of current federal tax laws.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    No because you used the word "pets", that is plural.
    Doh! Ok, fair point. If I had 2 cats and 2 dogs and I said "my pets are hungry" would you assume I only meant the dogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    Sorry you don't see that the article from the OP is about federal tax rates and what rich people pay (Romney).
    It doesn't say that anywhere. I'm not sure where you got that idea from.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    So your numbers show everybody paying federal taxes 3% to 5% higher. So, if we went with your numbers, the average American would be paying approx 31% instead of 27%, so Romney would be even further out of whack.

    My guess would be that yours counts FICA as a tax and mine doesn't. That would give you about that much of a gap. But that's just a guess.
    Actually yours does include FICA, not the 'payroll' in my previous post which was copy/pasted from your site. Pete also posted apples/oranges which possibly expains it somewhat. Your source is very lacking in the specifics on the calculations of income and such compared to the CBO data...but whatever. The data you provided is interesting.

    Of course there is another option you have avoided. Why don't we reduce everyones rate to that of Romney's 15%? I mean from the articles I've read on the matter the consensus seems to be 'why do I pay more than he does'.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Of course there is another option you have avoided. Why don't we reduce everyones rate to that of Romney's 15%?
    Because we're already running a $1.4 trillion/year deficit and have a $15 trillion debt. We can talk about doing something like that once we've paid down the debt and are running a surplus. But for now, we can't possibly afford that.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Just because an employer pays for something doesn't mean they don't benefit from it.
    They benefit from it to the degree they pay for it. JUST LIKE BUYING THINGS.

    The median productivity of an American worker is $97k/year, but the median compensation is only $44k/year.
    1) Are non-wage benefits included in this?
    2) If an employee's productivity equalled the cost to compensate him, there'd be no incentive to hire.

    If the employee were less educated, and less productive as a result, both the employer and the employee would make less off of his work.
    Uh okay. So?

    You've got nowhere to go with all this.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Actually yours does include FICA, not the 'payroll' in my previous post which was copy/pasted from your site. Pete also posted apples/oranges which possibly expains it somewhat. Your source is very lacking in the specifics on the calculations of income and such compared to the CBO data...but whatever. The data you provided is interesting.

    Of course there is another option you have avoided. Why don't we reduce everyones rate to that of Romney's 15%? I mean from the articles I've read on the matter the consensus seems to be 'why do I pay more than he does'.
    Have you ever done your taxes, lol

    Federal Tax Brackets

    Your tax bracket is the rate you pay on the "last dollar" you earn; but as a percentage of your income, your tax rate is generally less than that. First, here are the tax rates and the income ranges where they apply:

    Follow the following link to the calculator:

    Tax Brackets (Federal Income Tax Rates) 2000 through 2011 and 2012

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    1) Are non-wage benefits included in this?
    2) If an employee's productivity equalled the cost to compensate him, there'd be no incentive to hire.

    Uh okay. So?

    You've got nowhere to go with all this.
    I think you lost track of what we were discussing. My position was that the employer draws benefit from the educations of all their employees and that that benefit is not entirely cancelled out by the fact that they pay the employee a salary. They keep roughly 55% of the benefit of the education and give 45% of it to the employee on average. So, a working person gets 0.45 (45% of 1) educations worth of benefits, where an employer with 100 employees would get 55 (55% of 100) educations worth of benefit from it. So it makes sense that the employer would pay 122 (55 / 0.45) times as much for education. You follow?

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    stop lying. Mitt is an exception to the top one percent
    As Mitt Romney has admitted, and as the fact checking organizations have confirmed, those that get most of their income from investments, like Romney, pay a lower effective tax rate because the tax rate on capital gains is 15%.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I think you lost track of what we were discussing. My position was that the employer draws benefit from the educations of all their employees and that that benefit is not entirely cancelled out by the fact that they pay the employee a salary. They keep roughly 55% of the benefit of the education and give 45% of it to the employee on average.
    Wage expense is not a business' only expense though. The employees have to be productive enough to cover their own wages and a whole bunch of other business expenses, otherwise the business shuts down. And I also asked you if your numbers account for non-wage benefits. 401(k) matching? Health insurance?
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 01-19-12 at 02:08 AM.

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