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Thread: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

  1. #1751
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    And that proposal caught my interest! Unfortunately, I found that it was $4 trillion over ten years meaning only 400 billion a year, which lowers, but does not remove, our deficit. It also included 110 billion a year by moving out of a war that was going to end anyway. Further in, the details didn't thrill me much, either.

    However, as I'm not looking for perfect, I won't deny this was at least somewhat of a movement in the right direction.
    Yeah, it was only $400 billion a year. Although that's not as far off the mark as it may seem at first glance. Most budget analysts and economists and whatnot argue that we need to cut between say $600 billion a year and $800 billion a year to balance the budget, not the full $1.4 trillion. As we pull out of the recession revenues automatically go up as more people work and get raises and companies make more profits and whatnot and spending automatically goes down as people roll off unemployment and food stamps and medicaid and whatnot. If we cut somewhere in the $600b to $800b range, we should be back on track within a couple years.

    That doesn't mean we can't cut the deficit more than that. Ideally I'd like to be paying down the debt. But, $400b is actually a pretty decisive step in the right direction.

    Including ending the wars faster than budgeted is a legitimate savings relative to the budget. When they say we need to cut $600 to $800b they mean relative to the existing budget not relative to current spending necessarily.

  2. #1752
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    using that logic of yours-which is flawed since gifts are not taxed
    Yes they are.... Gift Tax
    Last edited by teamosil; 01-28-12 at 02:55 PM.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    death tax advocates claim (without any evidence) that the Heirs did nothing to "earn" the wealth and then argue a government that already taxed the wealth when it was being created somehow deserve it more
    Without any evidence!?!?!?!?!? Turtle, you are talking about winning the lottery through the accident of birth. There is no DESERVE in this equation.
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Yes they are.... Gift Tax
    that was part of the death tax law

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Without any evidence!?!?!?!?!? Turtle, you are talking about winning the lottery through the accident of birth. There is no DESERVE in this equation.
    there is that envy thing coming in again. who cares? its not your money and the fact that your parents may not have been able to leave you something in no way justifies you whining about what others were left

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No it doesn't....

    Estate Tax
    Estate and Gift Taxes
    Frequently Asked Questions on Estate Taxes

    Etc.

    The "death tax" is just a phrase right wingers came up with in relatively recent history to try to make it sound mean to ask mega millionaires to pay taxes.
    that is spot on. Here is the modern origin of the term and it is easy to see the motivation and where it comes from

    Estate tax in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Political use of "death tax" as a synonym for "estate tax" was encouraged by Jack Faris of the National Federation of Independent Business[42] during the Speakership of Newt Gingrich.
    Well-known Republican pollster Frank Luntz wrote that the term "death tax" "kindled voter resentment in a way that 'inheritance tax' and 'estate tax' do not".[43]
    Linguist George Lakoff states that the term "death tax" is a deliberate and carefully calculated neologism used as a propaganda tactic to aid in efforts to repeal estate taxes. The use of "death tax" rather than "estate tax" in the wording of questions in the 2002 National Election Survey increased support for estate tax repeal by only a few percentage points.[44]
    It is dishonest and an act of intellectual fraud to know the reality of the situation but still bow to ones ideological marching orders and engage in this travesty of language intended to deceive.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that was part of the death tax law
    Yes it is. Weird you were unaware of it. So I gather you concede the argument about double taxation is bs then?

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so tell me Haymarket why does the government deserve even a penny given all that wealth was massively taxed (some at 90%) during its accumulation? and don't your arguments apply to any estates hit by the death tax
    Wait a minute. Your premise is fatally flawed. Anytime people point to past tax rates of 90% (as you did here) we are quickly and repeatedly told by the warriors of the right that such numbers were a fantasy and in reality the actual tax rate paid was much much lower.

    So which is it Turtle?
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    that is spot on. Here is the modern origin of the term and it is easy to see the motivation and where it comes from

    Estate tax in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    It is dishonest and an act of intellectual fraud to know the reality of the situation but still bow to ones ideological marching orders and engage in this travesty of language intended to deceive.
    I love watching this passionate defense of the abomination known as the death tax

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    YOu are lying again. The 627 Estate Closing letter I received from the IRS referred to the amount of Ohio State DEATH TAXES

    you are wrong again
    I produced the link and language to the official IRS site.
    Teamosil produced several links on the estate tax.
    You have produced NOTHING except undocumented assertions and unverified claims.

    If you want to be taken seriously in debate, please present your evidence.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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