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Thread: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    But not solely to be able to spend more.
    How much revenue we collect and how much we spend have no relationship at all. That's why we have a $1.4 trillion deficit. The only thing revenue determines is how much of what we spend we have to borrow to cover.

    Personally I would like to see us reduce the deficit by about $600 billion/year. Increase revenues by about $200 billion/year, cut about $200 billion/year from the military and cut about $200 billion/year from domestic spending. That should put us about on track to be balanced as we come out of the recession.

    But from a deficit perspective, fighting tax increases is exactly the same thing as fighting against spending cuts. A $1 tax break means $1 more deficit just like $1 of spending does.

  2. #1672
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    I like that it helps those in the lower brackets, but I would really rather it came out of the general fund and that spending was decreased in proportion (or even better at 2/1).
    It does. They are haggling over how to fund it, but it isn't coming out of the social security trust. They're likely to fund it with a mix of closing tax loopholes and spending reductions.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    How much revenue we collect and how much we spend have no relationship at all. That's why we have a $1.4 trillion deficit. The only thing revenue determines is how much of what we spend we have to borrow to cover.

    Personally I would like to see us reduce the deficit by about $600 billion/year. Increase revenues by about $200 billion/year, cut about $200 billion/year from the military and cut about $200 billion/year from domestic spending. That should put us about on track to be balanced as we come out of the recession.

    But from a deficit perspective, fighting tax increases is exactly the same thing as fighting against spending cuts. A $1 tax break means $1 more deficit just like $1 of spending does.
    tax hikes hurt those subjected to them

    spending cuts hurts no one if the spending cuts are properly targeted. and much of the government spending is outrageous.

    I take that back, those who gain political power from the idiotic spending would be hurt

  4. #1674
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    tax hikes hurt those subjected to them

    spending cuts hurts no one if the spending cuts are properly targeted. and much of the government spending is outrageous.
    I think of it exactly backwards from that. Tax hikes on the rich don't hurt anybody. Romney isn't even going to notice if the balance on his Swiss bank account dropped by a few million so he certainly couldn't be considered to be hurt by that. On the other hand, "cutting spending" is a euphemism for people losing their jobs and people who rely on services having to pay for whatever the service provided out of pocket. It is essentially the same as putting a tax on the middle class. Say you cut subsidized student loans, that means middle class people need to save up more for their kids' college each month. Same impact as if you just taxed them for that amount. And middle class people who are living much closer to the line already actually are hurt by that. Now, military cuts aren't as bad. They also mean people losing their jobs, but that's pretty much the extent of the harm.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    How much revenue we collect and how much we spend have no relationship at all. That's why we have a $1.4 trillion deficit. The only thing revenue determines is how much of what we spend we have to borrow to cover.

    Personally I would like to see us reduce the deficit by about $600 billion/year. Increase revenues by about $200 billion/year, cut about $200 billion/year from the military and cut about $200 billion/year from domestic spending. That should put us about on track to be balanced as we come out of the recession.

    But from a deficit perspective, fighting tax increases is exactly the same thing as fighting against spending cuts. A $1 tax break means $1 more deficit just like $1 of spending does.
    I like that you have a plan. I disagree with its effectiveness when balancing all effects of those changes, but I like that you have a plan.

    There is far too much bloated government and we have a lot of room for cuts. Of course, I'm libertarian, I want to see less government. Far, far less. I would like to see military reduced, social programs restructured (better managed and planned, not removed), education completely redone (I don't remember the figures, but we could save thousands per student an
    d get better results through vouchers or alternative school structuring). If it moved things forward, though, I would vote for a 3/1 cut in spending to tax increase.

    Btw, to avoid total derailment, if you disagree with any of the programs I mentioned above, please simply say you disagree and don't let us get into it
    Omniscience just sucks without omnipotence!

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    Btw, to avoid total derailment, if you disagree with any of the programs I mentioned above, please simply say you disagree and don't let us get into it
    Fair enough

    I loathe vouchers, I like alternative school structuring, (although that is a very broad phrase so we might not agree on the specifics) I'd go 2-1 instead of 3-1, but we're in the same ball park on that.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I think of it exactly backwards from that. Tax hikes on the rich don't hurt anybody. Romney isn't even going to notice if the balance on his Swiss bank account dropped by a few million so he certainly couldn't be considered to be hurt by that. On the other hand, "cutting spending" is a euphemism for people losing their jobs and people who rely on services having to pay for whatever the service provided out of pocket. It is essentially the same as putting a tax on the middle class. Say you cut subsidized student loans, that means middle class people need to save up more for their kids' college each month. Same impact as if you just taxed them for that amount. And middle class people who are living much closer to the line already actually are hurt by that. Now, military cuts aren't as bad. They also mean people losing their jobs, but that's pretty much the extent of the harm.
    where you are wrong is that you pretend the rich are like Romney

    Obama thinks anyone making more than 200K a year is rich

    and while my mother is dead, she was a person who lived off of about 300K of dividend income left to her by my father. If she was still alive, her taxes would have doubled under what many of you libs want

    You also pretend that the "rich" have the same expenses and spending habits as you do or the average person (ie often those not paying any income taxes)

    but if someone is making 400K a year, lives in a high state income tax state like Ohio and has two kids in IVy Colleges and another one in a good private school that big tax hike you all want is going to cause major hardships-like pulling a kid out of Brown or a prep school

    tell me why people who already pay far more than others should suffer so that people who want too much and pay too little to the government can continue to do that


    and your claim that all spending helps the middle class is a joke

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    where you are wrong is that you pretend the rich are like Romney
    If somebody is working I don't want to raise their taxes. I'm talking about actual rich people, not upper middle class people. Lets say, more than $1m/year in investment profits. Those folks are not hurt in any way by paying their taxes and that's who we need to raise taxes on. First of all by treating investment income the same as we treat other income.

    If you mother were alive and raking in $300k a year without working, I'm sure she would be able to get by just fine paying the same tax rates working people do... Besides, there are exclusions for retirements savings to cover at least some of that.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Fair enough

    I loathe vouchers, I like alternative school structuring, (although that is a very broad phrase so we might not agree on the specifics) I'd go 2-1 instead of 3-1, but we're in the same ball park on that.
    Wait! Are we bargaining here?! Can I go back and give the number I want of 10/1 and we settle on 5/1, then??

    Thanks for stating your opinion without hitting the specifics on the schools thing.
    Omniscience just sucks without omnipotence!

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    If somebody is working I don't want to raise their taxes. I'm talking about actual rich people, not upper middle class people. Lets say, more than $1m/year in investment profits. Those folks are not hurt in any way by paying their taxes and that's who we need to raise taxes on. First of all by treating investment income the same as we treat other income.

    If you mother were alive and raking in $300k a year without working, I'm sure she would be able to get by just fine paying the same tax rates working people do... Besides, there are exclusions for retirements savings to cover at least some of that.
    well your dem buddies are not so charitable. and lots of people in that 200-400K a year have lots of dividend income especially if they are widows or older

    they already pay far more than most people and since I believe taxes should be based as much on what you get as your ability to pay I reject raising taxes purely based on what you or others claim they are able to pay

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