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Thread: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

  1. #1641
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    If you never have any actual arguments to present about my posts, why do you keep replying to them? Just so we don't forget you're here? We know you're here, we know you're a right winger, we know you don't ever have any substantive arguments about anything. You don't need to keep announcing it every 10 seconds.
    your only argument is based on a combination of envy of the rich with an inordinate amount of love for a bigger and bigger government. You claim that capital gains ought to be taxed at 35-40-45% or whatever you think is the proper amount of wealth confiscation top tax payers should face and you don't have a single rational argument for it nor any sort of understanding of the repercussions such idiocy would cause on investment in this country

    you pretend you want fairness when in reality you advocate extreme unfairness directed towards people who are actually paying taxes far above the rate you do

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I want as little as possible from government. I do not want some malignant little bureaucrat who can't even run their own ****ing life telling me how I should live mine

    There should be some incentive to succeed. To earn more and do better and if, I earn a LOT more, I should get to enjoy my money and that is certainly a reward. But the tax structure shouldn't become punitive and apply a brake to success by discouraging achievement.
    I agree, government is a necessary evil but like Colonoscopies and root canals not something to worship or want more of then what is absolutely necessary

    sadly, our leftwing "friends" often see government as a tool to be used to "get even" for their own failings with those who are not so limited

  3. #1643
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    your only argument is based on a combination of envy of the rich with an inordinate amount of love for a bigger and bigger government. You claim that capital gains ought to be taxed at 35-40-45% or whatever you think is the proper amount of wealth confiscation top tax payers should face and you don't have a single rational argument for it nor any sort of understanding of the repercussions such idiocy would cause on investment in this country

    you pretend you want fairness when in reality you advocate extreme unfairness directed towards people who are actually paying taxes far above the rate you do
    Hmm, is that what I said or are you just lying again? Lets check. Here is the post you are pretending to be summarizing:

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    There isn't like some set percentage written on a stone tablet somewhere. The optimal level depends on lots of things. Ideally, government should spend as much money as there are things to spend it on where it generates a higher ROI for society than is typical in private enterprise. So, for example, the average American generates $3 million in GDP in their lifetime. If that would only be $1 million if we had no schools and schools cost $150k/student or something, then that is a hugely good investment. On the other hand, if spending $1,000 on a particular program only generates $500 worth of benefits, that isn't good spending. Well, that line moves constantly. New technologies or sociological changes or opportunities pop up that make one kind of spending no longer worth it while making another kind of spending suddenly well worth it. The optimal taxation rate will vary depending on the optimal amount of spending. It could be that a very high rate is optimal at one time in history and a very low rate is optimal at another time.

    Second, what you want to tax and how progressively depends on all kinds of economic factors. Taxing the middle class more hurts consumer spending/corporate revenues. Taxing the rich more depletes investment dollars. Taxing cars reduces driving, taxing carbon boosts green energy, etc. At different times we'll be more in need of consumer spending or investment. We'll have a problem with various things that we want to use taxes to disincentivize them or we'll be in need of various things and we'll want to use taxes to create incentives to do them. If the wealth becomes too concentrated and it's causing too many sociological and economic problems, making taxation more progressive makes more sense, but if wealth becomes too evenly distributed and the incentive to work hard starts eroding, then making taxation less progressive makes sense.

    So, just spitting out a set rate is a really hard question. It's a really complicated question and the answer shifts all the time.

    But, all that said, in my view, what we need to do first and foremost is to eliminate the tax breaks for capital gains. Start just taxing investment income as ordinary income. That, combined with cuts in military and domestic spending should bring our budget back into balance and will even out consumer spending with investment capital, so hopefully we won't keep having these crazy bubbles.
    Huh. Guess you got it totally wrong. Again. Like always. Try harder TD.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post

    Yes, in that scenario I would suggest that we set up a 99% tax for profits over $100 billion a year and use the proceeds to buy cancer cures from you for people.
    BS, I would burn the research and tell everyone to piss off. After I cured family and friends of course.







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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Hmm, is that what I said or are you just lying again? Lets check. Here is the post you are pretending to be summarizing:



    Huh. Guess you got it totally wrong. Again. Like always. Try harder TD.
    I already responded that thinking the place to start is jacking up taxes on capital gains is moronic when there is half the country paying no income taxes and thus clamoring for more and more stuff to be paid for by jacking up income taxes on other people

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    BS, I would burn the research and tell everyone to piss off. After I cured family and friends of course.
    So, really, you think $15 trillion a year is a pretty reasonable amount to expect? Roughly the entire economy of the US? That sounds about right to you? $100 billion a year, bleh, that isn't even worth releasing it to you... lol.

    You know what the guy that cured polio did with the cure? He immediately distributed it to hundreds of companies, universities and governments all over the world for free and released all rights to it. He said that the most important thing was that as many people as possible get vaccinated as soon as possible and that he could never live with the idea that millions of people died or lived lives with severe deformities just so he could get rich. Whoever cures cancer doesn't need to be that magnanimous, but demanding 1/4 of the world's GDP is obviously absurd.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I already responded that thinking the place to start is jacking up taxes on capital gains is moronic when there is half the country paying no income taxes and thus clamoring for more and more stuff to be paid for by jacking up income taxes on other people
    Why don't you go through my post, see how man of my arguments in there are responses to your post right here, and then see if you have responses to those? Just repeating your conclusions and ignoring the actual arguments like you do is moronic. Do you really want to spend all day just exchanging "does so", "does not", "does so", "does not" type posts? That's fun to you?

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    I posted this before and never got a straight answer. Adam, Hay, how much of a cut do you think government should get, expressed in percentages? Please be specific include both corporate taxes then dividends. Explain your rationale if you could as well.
    I favor three things

    1) all federal income tax rates should go up five points
    2) stop applying discriminatory preferences for different sources as income and simply tax all money an individual makes as income according to the standard rate applicable on the progressive chart
    3- stop giving the top 6% a break on FICA and pop the cap while freezing benefit levels

    I do not have a proposal for corporate taxes but would endorse this from Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-be..._b_841173.html
    Last edited by haymarket; 01-27-12 at 10:26 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I favor three things

    1) all federal income tax rates should go up five points
    2) stop applying discriminatory preferences for different sources as income and simply tax all money an individual makes as income according to the standard rate applicable on the progressive chart
    3- stop giving the top 6% a break on FICA and pop the cap while freezing benefit levels
    IN other words making FICA another income redistribution program. make the rich pay more and get no additional benefits--sounds wonderful

    lets cut government substantially and after that has been in place for a few years then we might consider tax hikes starting with those not paying their share of the income tax. "their share" being if a group earns 10% of the national income they pay 10% of the income tax

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    IN other words making FICA another income redistribution program. make the rich pay more and get no additional benefits--sounds wonderful
    You ignore the tremendous benefit of living in a just and more equitable society which buys long term peace for all Americans -and that includes you Turtle.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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