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Thread: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

  1. #1621
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    most of them will never say because they believe that the government needs the money of those richer than they more than those who earned the income

    its like asking a gun hater at what point do gun laws become "unreasonable"
    Its also the only way to get them to put their ideas on the line instead of just screaming MORE! MORE! MORE!
    Give a percentage. Im betting he won't.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    more idiocy in that post: I am not calling for Buffett to pay more taxes
    More envy. The green turtle monster pokes out its head.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You seem to think they're too high. So how low should they go? And why?
    no one should pay any governmental entity-state or fed more than 10 percent of their AGI

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You seem to think they're too high. So how low should they go? And why?
    I think the dividend rates are too high. More than a few retirees depend on dividend income to fund their retirements. Drop the income percentage at the lower end and increase it at the higher end with brackets going to the sky, 50k/100k/250k/1mil/5mil. Buffet will get what he wants that way. Retirees wont get clobbered and revenue will go up unless and until people decide to use tax abatement, then you just adjust until revenue seems to climb slowly. Btw rates---10%/15%/20%/25%/30%.

    I also think that corporate income taxes should fall by 10%, dependent upon a majority US work force and majority US holdings. That answer isnt going to be popular but it is how I think we can give both sides something of what they want--jobs and tax cuts.

    Your turn.

    Devil's advocate: I wish we could use a VAT but there is no guarantee it will control revenue or drive down government spending. Maybe its as much a pipe dream as anything else.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    More envy. The green turtle monster pokes out its head.
    I guess in your mind that is the best you can come up with. I merely noted that far lefties who think Buffett speaks for people like me is rather idiotic. I am not envious of Buffett and I don't whine that I pay a higher effective federal income tax rate than he does. He pays tons of taxes and creates a lot of value for society. But his calls for higher taxes are designed to benefit him and is hardly altruistic.

    I think everyone should pay the same income tax rate so people like you cannot demand others pay more without you paying any more yourself

    with a flat rate if you want me to pay 5% more taxes so will you

    I suspect that would calm down the tax hiking fervor of most citizens

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I guess in your mind that is the best you can come up with. I merely noted that far lefties who think Buffett speaks for people like me is rather idiotic. I am not envious of Buffett and I don't whine that I pay a higher effective federal income tax rate than he does. He pays tons of taxes and creates a lot of value for society. But his calls for higher taxes are designed to benefit him and is hardly altruistic.

    I think everyone should pay the same income tax rate so people like you cannot demand others pay more without you paying any more yourself

    with a flat rate if you want me to pay 5% more taxes so will you

    I suspect that would calm down the tax hiking fervor of most citizens
    With no skin in the game, just keep raising the pot with no consequences. Its a sucker bet now.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Its also the only way to get them to put their ideas on the line instead of just screaming MORE! MORE! MORE!
    Give a percentage. Im betting he won't.
    There isn't like some set percentage written on a stone tablet somewhere. The optimal level depends on lots of things. Ideally, government should spend as much money as there are things to spend it on where it generates a higher ROI for society than is typical in private enterprise. So, for example, the average American generates $3 million in GDP in their lifetime. If that would only be $1 million if we had no schools and schools cost $150k/student or something, then that is a hugely good investment. On the other hand, if spending $1,000 on a particular program only generates $500 worth of benefits, that isn't good spending. Well, that line moves constantly. New technologies or sociological changes or opportunities pop up that make one kind of spending no longer worth it while making another kind of spending suddenly well worth it. The optimal taxation rate will vary depending on the optimal amount of spending. It could be that a very high rate is optimal at one time in history and a very low rate is optimal at another time.

    Second, what you want to tax and how progressively depends on all kinds of economic factors. Taxing the middle class more hurts consumer spending/corporate revenues. Taxing the rich more depletes investment dollars. Taxing cars reduces driving, taxing carbon boosts green energy, etc. At different times we'll be more in need of consumer spending or investment. We'll have a problem with various things that we want to use taxes to disincentivize them or we'll be in need of various things and we'll want to use taxes to create incentives to do them. If the wealth becomes too concentrated and it's causing too many sociological and economic problems, making taxation more progressive makes more sense, but if wealth becomes too evenly distributed and the incentive to work hard starts eroding, then making taxation less progressive makes sense.

    So, just spitting out a set rate is a really hard question. It's a really complicated question and the answer shifts all the time.

    But, all that said, in my view, what we need to do first and foremost is to eliminate the tax breaks for capital gains. Start just taxing investment income as ordinary income. That, combined with cuts in military and domestic spending should bring our budget back into balance and will even out consumer spending with investment capital, so hopefully we won't keep having these crazy bubbles.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    With no skin in the game, just keep raising the pot with no consequences. Its a sucker bet now.
    that is how it was intended to work

    rob peter to pay Paul and if there are a hundred pauls for every Peter, those who advocate paying paul with peter's money are going to win elections constantly

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Drop the income percentage at the lower end and increase it at the higher end with brackets going to the sky, 50k/100k/250k/1mil/5mil. Buffet will get what he wants that way.
    No, that would have no impact on the Buffets of the world. He pays only the 15% capital gains tax, not income tax.

  10. #1630
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    There isn't like some set percentage written on a stone tablet somewhere. The optimal level depends on lots of things. Ideally, government should spend as much money as there are things to spend it on where it generates a higher ROI for society than is typical in private enterprise. So, for example, the average American generates $3 million in GDP in their lifetime. If that would only be $1 million if we had no schools and schools cost $150k/student or something, then that is a hugely good investment. On the other hand, if spending $1,000 on a particular program only generates $500 worth of benefits, that isn't good spending. Well, that line moves constantly. New technologies or sociological changes or opportunities pop up that make one kind of spending no longer worth it while making another kind of spending suddenly well worth it. The optimal taxation rate will vary depending on the optimal amount of spending. It could be that a very high rate is optimal at one time in history and a very low rate is optimal at another time.

    Second, what you want to tax and how progressively depends on all kinds of economic factors. Taxing the middle class more hurts consumer spending/corporate revenues. Taxing the rich more depletes investment dollars. Taxing cars reduces driving, taxing carbon boosts green energy, etc. At different times we'll be more in need of consumer spending or investment. We'll have a problem with various things that we want to use taxes to disincentivize them or we'll be in need of various things and we'll want to use taxes to create incentives to do them. If the wealth becomes too concentrated and it's causing too many sociological and economic problems, making taxation more progressive makes more sense, but if wealth becomes too evenly distributed and the incentive to work hard starts eroding, then making taxation less progressive makes sense.

    So, just spitting out a set rate is a really hard question. It's a really complicated question and the answer shifts all the time.

    But, all that said, in my view, what we need to do first and foremost is to eliminate the tax breaks for capital gains. Start just taxing investment income as ordinary income. That, combined with cuts in military and domestic spending should bring our budget back into balance and will even out consumer spending with investment capital, so hopefully we won't keep having these crazy bubbles.
    its funny how the leftwing mind works

    they think the most important thing is jacking up taxes on those who already pay a ton of taxes which of course does nothing to stop the demand by most of america for more government spending. I think making everyone pay some income taxes (and thus cooling the demands of the many for more government) is far more important

    of course those who hate investors tend not to understand what happens when a parasitic government takes more and more investments

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