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Thread: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    tea:
    based on your link provided Is it not supporting the fact that the top 5 income groups currently pay the highest "total effective tax rate" and "Shares of Total Taxes Paid by Each Income Group Were Similar to their Shares of Total Income in 2010"?
    Yeah, that's right. As a whole, even the top 1% pays high taxes. Most people in the top 1% have jobs still, so they pay income taxes. Somebody who works and gets paid $400k is in the top 1%, but they pay 35% income taxes.

    The problem, in my view, isn't people who work for a living, even if they make a boatload of money doing it, it is the tax loophole for investors. An investor who makes $400m pays only 15% capital gains tax on it despite making 1,000 times more than the guy above. That's the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    So are you advicating they should pay more.
    No, I advocate that investors should pay the same tax rates as people who work.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No idea what relevance you think that has. I asked why it matters to you what the taxes are called.
    Words matter, remember?

    Center for Tax Justice is an organization linked to the Center for American Progress funded, and backed by Soros. It has ZERO credibility.

    It isn't Romney's fault. Nobody is saying it is. But Romney is the poster child now for why the policies Romney advocates are ridiculous.
    No, we understand that is the yoke you are dishonestly trying to hang around his neck to smear him, but as you say his dealings are 100% above board, so you have nothing.

    Retirement savings are covered under lots of other stuff, so that isn't relevant. Regardless, even if those didn't exist, taxing investment like other income means it would be progressive. Unless you were making a ton of profit off the investments each year, you wouldn't pay higher rates than you do on income.
    Like I already proved, Progressive taxation is a plank of Communism. Are you a Communist?

    It's weird that you'd make like you were going to provide a list and then not be able to provide even one actual argument...
    see above

    Consumption taxes are just a way to shift virtually the entire tax burden of the rich to the middle class. Your taxes would approximately double under a purely consumption based scheme. And for what? Just so super rich people have to pay basically no taxes at all? Why is that a good trade off?

    Funny, your argument for this part sound strikingly like the days of Stalin.

    j-mac
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Words matter, remember?
    It doesn't sound like you have a defense on this point, but if you can lay one out, I'm all ears.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Center for Tax Justice is an organization linked to the Center for American Progress funded, and backed by Soros. It has ZERO credibility.
    That consumption taxes are regressive is not a controversial point. Everybody knows that. It's been firmly established always. Just look it up for yourself if you don't believe me. There is no economist in the world that would disagree with me on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, we understand that is the yoke you are dishonestly trying to hang around his neck to smear him, but as you say his dealings are 100% above board, so you have nothing.
    Dishonesty? Again, you seem to completely misunderstand the whole issue. The issue is that Romney advocates on behalf of lowering taxes for the rich and cutting spending on the middle class. But there he is, a fat cat rich dude that doesn't pay much in taxes. His own example undermines his policy position. You see? Nothing to do with honesty or whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Like I already proved, Progressive taxation is a plank of Communism. Are you a Communist?
    You understand that just screaming "communist" isn't an actual argument, right? It's just right wing moronism running rampant.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    It doesn't sound like you have a defense on this point, but if you can lay one out, I'm all ears.
    Those who have ears will not listen.

    That consumption taxes are regressive is not a controversial point. Everybody knows that. It's been firmly established always. Just look it up for yourself if you don't believe me. There is no economist in the world that would disagree with me on that.
    Alexander Hamilton wrote:

    It is a signal advantage of taxes on articles of consumption that they contain in their own nature a security against excess. They prescribe their own limit, which cannot be exceeded without defeating the end proposed—that is, an extension of the revenue. When applied to this object, the saying is as just as it is witty that, "in political arithmetic, two and two do not always make four." If duties are too high, they lessen the consumption; the collection is eluded; and the product to the treasury is not so great as when they are confined within proper and moderate bounds. This forms a complete barrier against any material oppression of the citizens by taxes of this class, and is itself a natural limitation of the power of imposing them. - Alexander Hamilton
    You do know who he is right?

    Also,

    Many economists and tax experts favor consumption taxes over income taxes for economic growth.[10][11][12] Consumption taxes are neutral with respect to investment.[3][11]

    Consumption tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Sorry Team, you are wrong again.

    Dishonesty? Again, you seem to completely misunderstand the whole issue. The issue is that Romney advocates on behalf of lowering taxes for the rich and cutting spending on the middle class. But there he is, a fat cat rich dude that doesn't pay much in taxes. His own example undermines his policy position. You see? Nothing to do with honesty or whatever.
    In your own opening post, you described Romney, as a "Robber Baron".... Since then through the hundred plus pages of this thread you have been proven wrong in your assumptions over, and over again, yet you persist with them. THAT makes your argument dishonest.

    You understand that just screaming "communist" isn't an actual argument, right? It's just right wing moronism running rampant.
    I posted the exact plank of Communism it is from, and provided yet another concurring link that backed up the fact that a progressive tax is straight out of the Communist manifesto. Then you gave an argument that could have come straight out of Russia in Stalin's time. And I asked you directly, and will again here, keep in mind that your answer is important, Are you Communist?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Alexander Hamilton wrote:
    Just reducing consumption doesn't solve anything. If consumption goes down, the tax rates need to go up. So if everybody goes from buying $10k worth of stuff and paying $6k in consumption taxes to buying $5k worth of stuff, they'd need to pay $12k in taxes. That'd be paying more for less stuff. No good.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    In your own opening post, you described Romney, as a "Robber Baron".... Since then through the hundred plus pages of this thread you have been proven wrong in your assumptions over, and over again, yet you persist with them. THAT makes your argument dishonest.
    Oh, maybe you don't know what that term means. A Robber Baron is somebody who buys companies just to shut them down and sell off the assets. That's what Romney's job was previously, that isn't anything about the taxes.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I posted the exact plank of Communism it is from, and provided yet another concurring link that backed up the fact that a progressive tax is straight out of the Communist manifesto. Then you gave an argument that could have come straight out of Russia in Stalin's time. And I asked you directly, and will again here, keep in mind that your answer is important, Are you Communist?
    I bet Communists liked sandwiches too. Do you like sandwiches? Are you a Communist then?

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Oh, maybe you don't know what that term means. A Robber Baron is somebody who buys companies just to shut them down and sell off the assets. That's what Romney's job was previously, that isn't anything about the taxes.
    Now Romney's a robber baron? Oh, pulleeze. Link to any proof of that ridiculous ad hom.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Just reducing consumption doesn't solve anything. If consumption goes down, the tax rates need to go up. So if everybody goes from buying $10k worth of stuff and paying $6k in consumption taxes to buying $5k worth of stuff, they'd need to pay $12k in taxes. That'd be paying more for less stuff. No good.
    See, but the fact was that you claimed that there were, and let me quote your own words here:

    "There is no economist in the world that would disagree with me on that."

    You were proven wrong on that, and now try to change the subject...Typical of your participation in this thread.

    I bet Communists liked sandwiches too. Do you like sandwiches? Are you a Communist then?
    And yet, you refused to answer the simple question...Are you ashamed?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Oh, maybe you don't know what that term means. A Robber Baron is somebody who buys companies just to shut them down and sell off the assets. That's what Romney's job was previously, that isn't anything about the taxes.
    FWIR from 6th grade (like 50yrs ago), a robber baron was one who bought up companies as you said but rather than shut them down used them to build a monopoly. Has the definition changed?

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Now Romney's a robber baron? Oh, pulleeze. Link to any proof of that ridiculous ad hom.
    Sure. He talks about it openly... That's what Bain did. They bought companies. Sometimes to keep them running, sometimes to shut them down and sell off their assets.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    See, but the fact was that you claimed that there were, and let me quote your own words here:

    "There is no economist in the world that would disagree with me on that."

    You were proven wrong on that, and now try to change the subject...Typical of your participation in this thread.
    Dude. Try harder. I said that there is not economist in the world that would disagree with me that consumption taxes are regressive. Do you know what a regressive tax is?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And yet, you refused to answer the simple question...Are you ashamed?
    You're serious? You're seriously asking me if I am a "Communist"? You don't understand how idiotic that question is? There are only two Communist nations in the entire world and they're both rapidly trying to convert to capitalism.... What percentage of the US do you think are Communists? Maybe 0.000000001%? I've met only one person in my entire life that considered himself a Communist. It was in undergrad. He looked oddly like Lenin and he saw an old Soviet jacket at an antique shop once, so he bought it and started telling people he was a communist at parties... That's all Communism is these days... You're being ridiculous.

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