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Thread: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

  1. #1141
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    Quite simple really. Do you understand what an investment is? Do you understand that an investment can lose money? Does the government guarantee a 35% compensation on investment losses? Would you walk roll the dice knowing that the house would take over a third of your winnings?

    You seem to think that investment is like salary with lots of labor law statutes to protect you so there is minimal risk as in low-yield bonds where neither much capitol gains nor taxes are to be had.
    Yes.
    Yes.
    No. Nor should it.
    People roll the dice every hour of every day knowing that the house wins 80% of the time.

    None of that provides a single reason why an American would support such discriminatory preferences for capital gains which primarily benefit the wealthy over working people.

    I await actual reasons why they should.
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Because investment is a risk. What Wesley Weston is doing moves capital from point to point and give companies the chance to grow. Growth equals jobs. His salary is not guaranteed (but really, who's is), it is dependent on his success of investment. He could easily have made $0.

    We should encourage investment and growth in our economy.
    You have shown zero connection between an investor getting a capital gains break and any actual real world job creation which helps Mr. Bartlett and gain his support for that discriminatory preference.
    Last edited by haymarket; 01-23-12 at 09:14 AM.
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    Re: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

    from Turtle

    its a completely dishonest comparison since those dishonest comparators fail to even discuss what a millionaire investor pays in all those other taxes
    Then by all means do present that data for us to examine.
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    Re: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    from Turtle



    Then by all means do present that data for us to examine.
    why should i-its your buddy who is claiming that the average citizen's combined total state and federal tax bills are more than the single federal income tax a rich investor pays. I say WTH cares-its a dishonest comparision. That same poster then makes the completely unsupported assertion that the rich investor's TOTAL TAX cost (state and federal income taxes, state property taxes etc) are still the same 15% or perhaps 16% that included only his investments. That fails to include, once again, state income tax (Mass has a high one) state property taxes, FEDERAL INCOME TAX ON EARNED INCOME, state sales taxes.

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    Re: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why should i-its your buddy who is claiming that the average citizen's combined total state and federal tax bills are more than the single federal income tax a rich investor pays. I say WTH cares-its a dishonest comparision. That same poster then makes the completely unsupported assertion that the rich investor's TOTAL TAX cost (state and federal income taxes, state property taxes etc) are still the same 15% or perhaps 16% that included only his investments. That fails to include, once again, state income tax (Mass has a high one) state property taxes, FEDERAL INCOME TAX ON EARNED INCOME, state sales taxes.
    Because you made an allegation of fact without presenting any support for the existence of that alleged fact.

    You pointing at what you believe are faults in anothers posters position does not excuse or justify you making the same errors in failing to substantiate your own allegations of fact.

    You made a claim of fact and the responsibility is upon you to support it if challenged. And you have been challenged to prove it.
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    Re: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Because you made an allegation of fact without presenting any support for the existence of that alleged fact.

    You pointing at what you believe are faults in anothers posters position does not excuse or justify you making the same errors in failing to substantiate your own allegations of fact.

    You made a claim of fact and the responsibility is upon you to support it if challenged. And you have been challenged to prove it.
    YOu again fail to take issue with the dishonest assertions from your side and I have constantly stated that dishonest comparisions are just that. RIch investors pay a far higher effective (actual) federa income tax rate (as well as far more actual dollars) than average citizens do and indeed, one has to have earned income of well over the 200,000 range to approach the same effective income tax (federal) rate as a rich investor who has absolutely no earned income.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Yes.
    Yes.
    No. Nor should it.
    People roll the dice every hour of every day knowing that the house wins 80% of the time.

    None of that provides a single reason why an American would support such discriminatory preferences for capital gains which primarily benefit the wealthy over working people.

    I await actual reasons why they should.
    Would you walk roll the dice knowing that the house would take over a third of your winnings?

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    People roll the dice every hour of every day knowing that the house wins 80% of the time.

    If I win a million and the government claims a third, I am more than happy to keep that 2/3 I won. I would be one very happy citizen.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    YOu again fail to take issue with the dishonest assertions from your side and I have constantly stated that dishonest comparisions are just that. RIch investors pay a far higher effective (actual) federa income tax rate (as well as far more actual dollars) than average citizens do and indeed, one has to have earned income of well over the 200,000 range to approach the same effective income tax (federal) rate as a rich investor who has absolutely no earned income.
    And none of that offers one single reason why a person should support discriminatory tax preferences for long term gains.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Yes.
    Yes.
    No. Nor should it.
    People roll the dice every hour of every day knowing that the house wins 80% of the time.

    None of that provides a single reason why an American would support such discriminatory preferences for capital gains which primarily benefit the wealthy over working people.

    I await actual reasons why they should.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah....
    In U.S., 54% Have Stock Market Investments, Lowest Since 1999

    PRINCETON, NJ -- Even as stocks have returned to lofty heights from their March 2009 lows, the percentage of Americans saying they hold individual stocks, stock mutual funds, or stocks in their 401(k) or IRA fell to 54% in April -- the lowest level since Gallup began monitoring stock ownership annually in 1999. Self-reported stock ownership has trended downward since 2007 -- before the recession and financial crisis began -- when 65% of Americans owned stocks.
    Stock Market ownership.jpg

    So it seems like about 54% still own stock and are affected by Capital Gains tax, including a huge swath of the electorate with retirement plans. Please define "wealthy" in real dollar terms instead of platitudes.

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