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Thread: Romney reveals he pays about 15% in taxes(edited)

  1. #1001
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Wow, you sure have a lot of balls dude...Speaking for everyone else as though you could.


    j-mac
    I speak for a rational tax policy for America and for an end to discriminatory tax rates which primarily benefit the rich. In your eyes this is some sort of transgression?
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Not sure what your argument is here. Can you lay it out?
    I think I already have. Capital gains treatment of dividends is another piece of social engineering, in my opinion. It encourages investors to invest in the stock market rather than put their money in their mattresses or in banks. You're arguing that people can invest in foreign corporations, receive dividends from them, and are also taxed at the favored rate doesn't negate its value as an investment incentive in American companies.

    Mostly false. Lets say that the double taxation on dividends issue in effect increases the capital gains tax rate to say 15.1% or so. Whoptie do.
    Your "Let's say..." assumption doesn't hold water. These corporations should be paying 35% tax on those dividends. Of course, they're not because, as you point out, they're too busy finding ways around it. And Congress is too busy to close these legal loopholes. My point is that 35% + 15% = 50%. Don't penalize the individual investor because Congress has, yet again, let big business off the hook.[/QUOTE]

    If you lose money overall, you owe no taxes. Losses offset profits.
    I own 1000 shares of XYZ stock. I receive $10,000 in dividends over 10 years. I pay 15% tax on those dividends. In year 11, I sell those 1,000 shares for $10,000 less than I paid for it. Assuming I have no offsetting gains, I get to deduct $3,000 (I think) in losses every year until I've used up the $10,000. In the meantime, I've paid tax on $10,000 of dividends that were taxed as income when, in fact, I lost money.

    That the thread you are on shows one of the reasons that the double taxation argument doesn't really have much impact. In the case of Romney's money, there was nobody else paying taxes. Bain Capital didn't pay any taxes on the money. They just gave it to Romney and he paid 15% and that was that.
    I responded initially to Haymarket's post that no one had posted up any reasons why a 15% capital gains rate made sense. I posted up several. Don't like 'em? It's the best I can do.

    I personally think that the favorable treatment of capital gains needs revisiting...for all of the reasons you've pointed out. Our tax code is a freakin' mess. The capital gains tax is just one area. Corporate income tax is even more aggregious.
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Baloney Maggie. That is utter poppycock. You are way too smart to fall for that double taxation BS and think it means anything.

    Money is taxed hundreds of times. I get 1000$ in salary and pay tax on it. I pay it to the store and they pay tax on it. They pay it to a worker in wages and they pay tax on it. She pays it to her landlord who pays tax on it. The landlord pays it to a handyman to do repairs on his units and pays tax on it. And on and on and on and on and on. every time the money changes hands with a new owner, there is potential tax liability.

    But the rich and their defenders pretend that capital gains are some special thing that defies the rule of money ownership.

    Gimme me the worlds smallest violin.
    more lies that ignores reality

    the same pot of money is taxed twice by the same entity. there is no transaction when a corporation transfers money to its owners like there is when other transactions are taxed

    when I earn income it is taxed by the government. when I hire you to cut my grass or do my taxes I pay you income. That money is again taxed but that is because it has been exchanged for services. Same thing If I buy a tennis racquet from Haymarket's tennis supply shop.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    There is no picture to get. None of those even begin to approach a logical rational reason why the average working person should support a discriminatory and preferential tax rate on capital gains which primarily benefit the wealthy that is less than half of a worker making the same amount.

    Could you explain what is discriminatory about the Cap Gains tax?

    j-mac
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I speak for a rational tax policy for America and for an end to discriminatory tax rates which primarily benefit the rich. In your eyes this is some sort of transgression?
    your concept of rational is making the rich pay more and more

    how about everyone paying the same flat rate on all income

    how about no one being taxed in income but rather transactions

    both of those are FAR MORE RATIONAL than this complex VOTE BUYING scheme that Congress loves in order to buy more power by using the tax code to reward supporters and punish those who vote for their opponents?

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Could you explain what is discriminatory about the Cap Gains tax?

    j-mac
    Its not but some believe that the progressive scheme that is biased against the wealthy is properly applied to all taxes. that is how far left propaganda sites claim that the US TAX SYSTEM (which only has a few progressive taxes in the many different taxes that make up the US tax system-which includes state sales taxes, state property taxes, luxury taxes, excise taxes etc) is not as progressive as it should be. They include dozens of taxes that were NEVER INTENDED to be progressive with the asinine assumption that the entire tax system should be progressive rather than those few taxes which were intended to be progressive

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I speak for a rational tax policy for America and for an end to discriminatory tax rates which primarily benefit the rich. In your eyes this is some sort of transgression?

    Rational? You think soaking one level of wealth in this country, while using their earnings to fund those that pay nothing into society is rational? There ain't enough Kool Aid in the world to see things as messed up as you are laying them out.

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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    There are several. 1. Consideration of money in small business (which in case you forgot employ's the lion share of people in this country) are treated as "rich" in democrat dishonest claims.
    Proof? All the proposals I've seen coming out of Congress to help small businesses have been from the Democrats. The stimulus that the GOP opposed helped small businesses, as does the American's Jobs Act that the GOP opposed.



    2. That the term "rich" is overly vague and can be moved ever downward as liberal progressives start running out of upper income levels to fund their spending. Think AMT.

    3. I always try to keep in mind the old adage...."They came for my neighbors things and I said nothing....."

    Get the picture....?


    j-mac
    Yes, the picture is loud and clear the GOP has nothing to offer the working class to continue the tax cuts for the rich in November.
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Baloney Maggie. That is utter poppycock. You are way too smart to fall for that double taxation BS and think it means anything.

    Money is taxed hundreds of times. I get 1000$ in salary and pay tax on it. I pay it to the store and they pay tax on it. They pay it to a worker in wages and they pay tax on it. She pays it to her landlord who pays tax on it. The landlord pays it to a handyman to do repairs on his units and pays tax on it. And on and on and on and on and on. every time the money changes hands with a new owner, there is potential tax liability.

    But the rich and their defenders pretend that capital gains are some special thing that defies the rule of money ownership.

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    -- Seriously, though, the company pays you salary and gets to deduct that salary...they don't pay tax on it. You do. Business expenses are tax deductible. Another example: You pay your ex-wife alimony. You deduct it. She pays the tax. Can't think of any more examples off hand, but there are plenty. And I'm still laughing about the violin.
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    Re: Romney's tax rate is only half as high as the middle class pays

    This is what I know about politicians and taxed. None of them are actually playing much. If Romney ain't payin many then you can bet Obama, Clinton, and all them guys are not. They don't get in trouble for insider trading too.

    And I do know that progressive property taxes hurt the poor schools too. The more you drop property taxes on the poor areas the worse the poor schools suffer.
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