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Thread: Obama seeks 'consolidation authority' to merge agencies

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    Re: Obama seeks 'consolidation authority' to merge agencies

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What is becoming apparent to more and more people: The GOP are saying the same thing they said every election of the last 30 years - We demand the budget deficit be reduced.........but what they do in actuality is continue spending too much and continue cutting tax rates for the wealthy.

    No see, that was the problem no doubt. Our representatives failed to do what the promised largely I think because they were drawn into what liberal progressives told them they had to do to get along. For 40 years republicans let demo's call the shots, and coward into thinking that if we didn't continually run up the deficit in favor of more and more social spending programs that we wouldn't be able to put a nick in the liberal lie of standing for the poor, and middle class. It was a lie.

    The age of progressivism is nearly over. They have been unmasked as destructive to what this country is, and what the promise of this country is, and we the people don't want your socialist progressivism anymore....Thank God.


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    Re: Obama seeks 'consolidation authority' to merge agencies

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Please, don't be such a drama queen. He's asking Congress for this authority -- not staging a military coup.
    We understand your creeping incrementalism pal.


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    Re: Obama seeks 'consolidation authority' to merge agencies

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    ...The only departure from that track during the last 3 decades has been the Clinton Administration when both sides came together to both cut spending and increase taxes for the wealthy.
    But the capital gains tax was reduced during the Clinton administration. I continue to hear from the left that the 'rich' are not paying their 'fair share' because of their income from cap gains and want to raise them. Which is it?

    Further as the 'left' on here continue to pontificate, spending levels are set by Congress not the President. Who was the majority in Congress when the spending cuts occured?

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    Re: Obama seeks 'consolidation authority' to merge agencies

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    But the capital gains tax was reduced during the Clinton administration. I continue to hear from the left that the 'rich' are not paying their 'fair share' because of their income from cap gains and want to raise them. Which is it?

    Clinton lowered Capital gains rates from 28% to 20%, but increased other taxes and closed loopholes:

    "Mr. Clinton, in 1993, signed the largest tax increase in American history, and on top of George HW Bush's a couple of years earlier in the midst of a recession. After HW's tax increase, the GDP began to rebound as Bill Clinton took office, promising to focus like a laser on "the economy, stupid". After Clinton's 1993 tax increase on the wealthy, job growth began, and by the end of Clinton's term 23M new jobs had been created."
    Capital Gains Jumped Under Clinton And Fell Under Bush For Reasons That Had Little To Do With Either | Stan Collender's Capital Gains and Games

    Bush II lowered Capital gains tax rate again to 15%. What is proposed now is raising them back to the level they had been lowered to by Clinton.


    Further as the 'left' on here continue to pontificate, spending levels are set by Congress not the President. Who was the majority in Congress when the spending cuts occured?
    Why is it Obama is blamed for the debt then? The point is the only time in the last 30 years the deficit has been reduced significantly was when both sides came together in the 90's to both cut spending and increase taxes. The Congress in the 90's saw that spending cuts, especially in the military, were not enough, they saw that it also required tax increases.

    That is what will eventually have to be done again, because it is not possible without doing both spending cuts and tax increases. It is ironic it is the GOP that is balking at cutting government spending now as well as their usual opposition to increasing revenues.
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    Re: Obama seeks 'consolidation authority' to merge agencies

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Clinton lowered Capital gains rates from 28% to 20%, but increased other taxes and closed loopholes:
    "Mr. Clinton, in 1993, signed the largest tax increase in American history, and on top of George HW Bush's a couple of years earlier in the midst of a recession. After HW's tax increase, the GDP began to rebound as Bill Clinton took office, promising to focus like a laser on "the economy, stupid". After Clinton's 1993 tax increase on the wealthy, job growth began, and by the end of Clinton's term 23M new jobs had been created."
    Clinton did increase taxes on the wealthy but he also CUT taxes at the same time for low income families. He also raised taxes on Social Security income. Thus it was not merely ‘raised taxes on the rich’.


    It is ironic it is the GOP that is balking at cutting government spending now as well as their usual opposition to increasing revenues.
    Please point out where the GOP is balking on this…much of the discussion has been on the skepticism of his words and the apparent nominal monetary effect it will have but no one that I have read/heard is against this proposal.

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    Re: Obama seeks 'consolidation authority' to merge agencies

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Clinton lowered Capital gains rates from 28% to 20%, but increased other taxes and closed loopholes:

    "Mr. Clinton, in 1993, signed the largest tax increase in American history, and on top of George HW Bush's a couple of years earlier in the midst of a recession. After HW's tax increase, the GDP began to rebound as Bill Clinton took office, promising to focus like a laser on "the economy, stupid". After Clinton's 1993 tax increase on the wealthy, job growth began, and by the end of Clinton's term 23M new jobs had been created."
    Capital Gains Jumped Under Clinton And Fell Under Bush For Reasons That Had Little To Do With Either | Stan Collender's Capital Gains and Games

    Bush II lowered Capital gains tax rate again to 15%. What is proposed now is raising them back to the level they had been lowered to by Clinton.




    Why is it Obama is blamed for the debt then? The point is the only time in the last 30 years the deficit has been reduced significantly was when both sides came together in the 90's to both cut spending and increase taxes. The Congress in the 90's saw that spending cuts, especially in the military, were not enough, they saw that it also required tax increases.

    That is what will eventually have to be done again, because it is not possible without doing both spending cuts and tax increases. It is ironic it is the GOP that is balking at cutting government spending now as well as their usual opposition to increasing revenues.
    The problem is spending money you don't have. That's a lesson that should be taught in grade school but it seems its a lesson still ignored, even in Harvard.

    There is no guarantee that sending DC more money will reduce the deficit. If they cannot live within their means then sending them more money will do no good whatsoever. They will just run through that and continue to borrow until they run out of lenders, and that time appears to be fast approaching.

    Then they will just print it as they need it. That's not difficult to predict or understand.

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    Re: Obama seeks 'consolidation authority' to merge agencies

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Clinton did increase taxes on the wealthy but he also CUT taxes at the same time for low income families. He also raised taxes on Social Security income. Thus it was not merely ‘raised taxes on the rich’.
    Take it up with the CBO, it was their assessment.




    Please point out where the GOP is balking on this…much of the discussion has been on the skepticism of his words and the apparent nominal monetary effect it will have but no one that I have read/heard is against this proposal.
    "Paul Light, a New York University professor who specializes in government reform, called Obama's approach promising, but he said it's unlikely that Congress — which helped create the maze of agencies and departments — would cede him the authority he seeks.

    "People don't like to give up turf," Light said. "This all begins in Congress, which likes the duplication and overlap of regulations and agencies. It gives members lots of things to brag about when they get home."

    "If the authority were granted, Congress would be required to hold an up-or-down vote on the president's plan — without making any changes to it — within 90 days of its submission."

    Obama seeks power to streamline federal government | McClatchy

    "Skeptical Republicans questioned both the merit and the timing of Obama's announcement."

    Obama unveils plan to streamline government - Page 2 - CNN
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    Re: Obama seeks 'consolidation authority' to merge agencies

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The problem is spending money you don't have. That's a lesson that should be taught in grade school but it seems its a lesson still ignored, even in Harvard.

    There is no guarantee that sending DC more money will reduce the deficit. If they cannot live within their means then sending them more money will do no good whatsoever. They will just run through that and continue to borrow until they run out of lenders, and that time appears to be fast approaching.

    Then they will just print it as they need it. That's not difficult to predict or understand.
    The debt was created by 30 years of both spending too much and tax breaks for the rich. The only way to address that 30 years of debt is by both spending less and eliminating the tax breaks for the rich.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama seeks 'consolidation authority' to merge agencies

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The debt was created by 30 years of both spending too much and tax breaks for the rich. The only way to address that 30 years of debt is by both spending less and eliminating the tax breaks for the rich.
    Spending too much yes, tax breaks for the rich, no.

    Is there any evidence whatsoever that if "the rich" paid three times what they are now that the budget would be balanced? Of course not! Not if they paid 20 times or gave the government all their money.

    You seemed to have memorized your response of "tax the rich" without thinking this through. Other countries have tried to "tax the rich", such as happened in the UK, and the rich just physically fled. Now they can just press a button on their computer.

    Thomas Sowell explains part of it quite well in this column and its worth a read. You Can

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    Re: Obama seeks 'consolidation authority' to merge agencies

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Spending too much yes, tax breaks for the rich, no.

    Is there any evidence whatsoever that if "the rich" paid three times what they are now that the budget would be balanced? Of course not! Not if they paid 20 times or gave the government all their money.

    You seemed to have memorized your response of "tax the rich" without thinking this through. Other countries have tried to "tax the rich", such as happened in the UK, and the rich just physically fled. Now they can just press a button on their computer.

    Thomas Sowell explains part of it quite well in this column and its worth a read. You Can
    There is some evidence, from none other than Reagan's former economic advisor, that the debt would be around $2 trillion less than its current level if the top effective tax rate had been frozen in 1986.

    Bruce Bartlett: The Rich Can Afford to Pay More Taxes - NYTimes.com
    Last edited by AdamT; 01-16-12 at 07:04 PM.

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