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Thread: EPA: Power plants main global warming culprits

  1. #21
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    Re: EPA: Power plants main global warming culprits

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    ...if you think the evidence we have from 200 years of temp reading and atmosphere readings mean we are causing global warming. We don't even have enough data now to determine if it is going to rain in 3 days.
    Do you believe scientists when they say CO2 traps heat? Here's an explanation:

    Your Questions: Carbon Power : NPR
    First, the sun bathes the Earth in radiation. Some of that radiation we can see – visible light — and some of it we can't, like ultraviolet light.

    When solar radiation strikes Earth, the atmosphere reflects some of it back into space. The rest is absorbed by the atmosphere or penetrates through to the surface, where it is absorbed by land and water. Think of how a paved parking lot or puddle of water warms on a sunny day.

    Then — and this is key — the Earth beams part of that heat back up to space — in the form of infrared energy. But while the transparent gases in the atmosphere let incoming sunlight pass through (that's where the name "transparent" comes from) they absorb or trap some of the infrared radiation sent up by the Earth. This infrared energy heats up the gas molecules, which then release some of that heat, helping warm the Earth. (In a real greenhouse, this "re-radiation" doesn't play a big role — the glass simply traps the warm air in the greenhouse.)

    Also, it turns out that different atmospheric gases have different abilities to trap and radiate heat. The four major warming gases are water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide.
    CO2 is actually important to have in the atmosphere. Without enough of it, the Earth would get too cold for us. In fact, when we say humans are producing CO2, it does NOT mean the total amount of CO2 on Earth has changed. It stayed the same. Human beings don't create it out of nowhere. It's better to say human beings release CO2. That's more believable isn't it? Most CO2 is locked in ice and permafrost and in fossil fuels. When we burn fossil fuels we release CO2. This released CO2 heats the earth a small amount which leads to ice melting, and that releases even more CO2. Yes, ice melts every year, but there is some ice that hundreds of thousands of years old. When this old ice melts it adds to the net amount of CO2 we wouldn't have otherwise.

    We know all this because ice cores can look much farther back than just 200 years, they can look back 650,000 years.

    Q. How far outside of the historical range for CO2 levels are we at this point? — Jim Foreman, Sacramento, Calif.

    Pretty far. Scientists studying air bubbles trapped in ice cores have found that over the last 650,000 years, CO2 levels in the atmosphere ranged from about 180 parts per million (ppm) to 300 ppm. Just prior to Britain's Industrial Revolution, levels hovered at 280 ppm, according to the latest report from the United Nation's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. CO2 levels had risen to 379 ppm by 2005, and are increasing at an average of nearly 2 ppm per year.

    The trend is pretty similar for other major greenhouse gases produced by human activities. Methane concentrations have more than doubled from 715 parts per billion (ppb) in pre-industrial times to 1774 ppb in 2005. And nitrous oxide levels have spiraled from 270 ppb to 319 ppb.
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    Re: EPA: Power plants main global warming culprits

    build nuclear power plants, preferably thorium.

    and yes, build one next to my town. we need the jobs.

    kthx

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    Re: EPA: Power plants main global warming culprits

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Yank View Post
    The only problem is, electric cars get there charge from power plants which burn mostly fossil fuels. So whats the real gain by having one?

    Honestly with all the evidence out there of Fraud by the pro global warming scientists that has now been exposed, how can anyone with a brain bigger than the size of a peanut believe in this obvious scam anymore?

    Cripes Liberals how about some critical thinking for a change.
    Evidence of fraud? You mean the evidence that was investigated by multiple independent groups and found to not actually indicate fraud?
    Cripes conservatives how about not listening to Fox News for a change

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I put you in the group of people who believe that the world is 5000 years old if you think the evidence we have from 200 years of temp reading and atmosphere readings mean we are causing global warming. We don't even have enough data now to determine if it is going to rain in 3 days.

    When people talk about global warming, they are so close to the item they can't identify it.

    /interior

    Ant looking at an ice cube.

    OMG...its a glacier!!!!!
    Uhh, it's not just from looking at temperature charts. Learn something about a field of research before you dismiss it out of hand.
    Last edited by Deuce; 01-14-12 at 01:15 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: EPA: Power plants main global warming culprits

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Even if AGW isn't believed, one must consider the huge amount of pollutants (largely forgotten lately) released by burning coal.
    coal power: air pollution | Union of Concerned Scientists

    The answer is to build more nuclear, wind, solar, wave, and hydro plants, and then watch the unemployment drop through the floor while all these plants are built and then maintained.
    I feel absolutely certain that you know just how long it takes to have a working Nuclear Power Station, from inception to finished product is a minimum of 8 years.

    Regarding Hydro power plants, with the continuing drought threatening the US, pray tell where will the water come from.

    Yes what you propose may well send Unemployment through the floor, but what you fail to mention is a Time frame.

    Also please remember we have a person sitting in the Peoples White House with his feet up on the desk in front of him, who has never been able to take a decision as well as being unable to utter a word without a teleprompter or two on hand.
    Last edited by Pointy; 01-14-12 at 01:22 PM.

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    Re: EPA: Power plants main global warming culprits

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I put you in the group of people who believe that the world is 5000 years old if you think the evidence we have from 200 years of temp reading and atmosphere readings mean we are causing global warming. We don't even have enough data now to determine if it is going to rain in 3 days.
    Three problems with your reasoning on this:

    1) We look to the opinions of scientists, not random blokes off the street, in scientific matters because they have the knowledge to allow them to understand the issue and the training to be able to apply that knowledge. You do not, so your assumptions don't carry any weight where their conclusions do. 97% of climatologists agree that AGW has been scientifically proven. So, that's that.

    2) We can track the temperature back thousands of years. Ice cores, sediment layers, etc, all can give us that information. Again, that's why we look to scientists instead of random blokes- they understand the tools available where the random bloke does not.

    3) You're understanding the whole thing backwards. The change in temperature isn't the evidence for AGW. The effect that greenhouse gases have on the temperature has been known since 1896. You can test it exactly in a lab in like 10 minutes. High school science classes do it all the time. The role measured temperatures play is that if there were some other force that scientists haven't discovered that is countering the rise in temperature, that would show up in the measured temps. If that had happened, scientists would have known they had to look for more variables. Even if the temperatures had been falling for 5,000 years that wouldn't mean AGW was false, it would mean that AGW was happening, but that some other, bigger, factor was working in the opposite direction. But, of course, that isn't what happened. The measured temperatures turned out to match up with what we would expect to happen when you release this much greenhouse gas.

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    Re: EPA: Power plants main global warming culprits

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    EPA: Power plants main global warming culprits - Yahoo! News

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The most detailed data yet on emissions of heat-trapping gases show that U.S. power plants are responsible for the bulk of the pollution blamed for global warming.
    Power plants released 72 percent of the greenhouse gases reported to the Environmental Protection Agency for 2010, according to information released Wednesday that was the first catalog of global warming pollution by facility. The data include more than 6,700 of the largest industrial sources of greenhouse gases, or about 80 percent of total U.S. emissions.
    ROFLMAO!

    I guess the EPA has never heard of China or India. Figures.

    The EPA is nothing but a bunch of radical political hacks with an agenda. The EPA needs to be disbanded.

    Now, having said that.....

    Part of my energy plan is to have at a minimum 1,000 nuclear power plants up and running ASAP.

    There is no reason to product so much as one kilowatt of electricity in this country from fossil fuels.
    I came into this world fighting, screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I have no problem going out the same way.

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    Re: EPA: Power plants main global warming culprits

    ZOMG the polar bears!
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: EPA: Power plants main global warming culprits

    Quote Originally Posted by a777pilot View Post
    ROFLMAO!

    I guess the EPA has never heard of China or India. Figures.

    The EPA is nothing but a bunch of radical political hacks with an agenda. The EPA needs to be disbanded.

    Now, having said that.....

    Part of my energy plan is to have at a minimum 1,000 nuclear power plants up and running ASAP.

    There is no reason to product so much as one kilowatt of electricity in this country from fossil fuels.
    Um, the US has released far more CO2 to date than China or India. Per-year, China recently passed us but they still have a lot of catching up to do. (and per-capita it's still not even a contest)
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: EPA: Power plants main global warming culprits

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    This is why I'm all for nuclear power.
    Which is not without its own environmental risks. We still haven't really found a long-term storage plan for spent fuel rods, that's my main concern. But in the medium to long-term, definitely something that should be done.

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    Re: EPA: Power plants main global warming culprits

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Um, the US has released far more CO2 to date than China or India. Per-year, China recently passed us but they still have a lot of catching up to do. (and per-capita it's still not even a contest)
    The first paragraph is a bit misleading. The EPA is only talking about US emissions, but the first paragraph of the article implies something much bigger.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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