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Thread: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Actually if that is all true then he is a total douche. Its comical that you like all the other morons have this incessant need to fall back on the Fox News hate train. From what I have seen here its you and people like you that are the ones that actually WATCH Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Fox News. No wonder their viewership is so high. Its not only the people that watch them...its morons that HATE them that watch them and follow them so closely that bumps them up. Well done...you have earned your Pete Badge!
    It definitely is true. Not just that, but it was widely reported when he got busted for faking it. Front page, top story, for multiple days on every legitimate news source. They gave the faking just as much coverage as they gave the initial video. But, there are large numbers of people, all on the right politically, who are very aware of the video, but unaware that they turned out to be fake. That's what we're struggling to understand. The most obvious explanation would seem to be that it happens because the right wing media outlets- Fox, WND, humanevents, Limbaugh, Beck, Washington Times, blogs, AM radio, etc- massively reported the video, but then failed to mention that it was fake at all. If you have another explanation, by all means, I'm all ears.

    In fact, we see that sort of situation all the time on just about every issue. Folks on the right that are keenly aware of half of a story, but completely unaware of the entire other half of what happened. It's becoming more and more troubling. I am assuming that it is not a coincidence that they are consistently aware of the half that the right wing media reports, but not the half that they choose not to report.

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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Checking ID would not in any way stop the voter fraud stated by the OP. It means that poll workers and/or the precinct election judge cast ballots themselves, picking names out of there book of registered voters to do so. Checking IDs is entirely irrelevant.

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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    The voter ID idea is really, really simple and straight forward. The reasons for being against it are highly suspect.
    It is a great idea... problem is that the GOP what to make it hard to get and that is a horrible idea.
    PeteEU

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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    It definitely is true. Not just that, but it was widely reported when he got busted for faking it. Front page, top story, for multiple days on every legitimate news source. They gave the faking just as much coverage as they gave the initial video. But, there are large numbers of people, all on the right politically, who are very aware of the video, but unaware that they turned out to be fake. That's what we're struggling to understand. The most obvious explanation would seem to be that it happens because the right wing media outlets- Fox, WND, humanevents, Limbaugh, Beck, Washington Times, blogs, AM radio, etc- massively reported the video, but then failed to mention that it was fake at all. If you have another explanation, by all means, I'm all ears.

    In fact, we see that sort of situation all the time on just about every issue. Folks on the right that are keenly aware of half of a story, but completely unaware of the entire other half of what happened. It's becoming more and more troubling. I am assuming that it is not a coincidence that they are consistently aware of the half that the right wing media reports, but not the half that they choose not to report.
    Let me ask you...Ive seen several people here say that the 'crime' committed was the guy committed voter fraud by requesting ballots of dead people. Did he? And did he get those ballots? And if so...would you say that is a problem?

    Personally...I think elections are supposed to mean something. I think douchebags that stuff ballot boxes ought to go to jail. I think people that fraudulently register or entice others to register fraudulently ought to go to jail. I think voter fraud or intimidation of all kind should be identified and the perpetrators should be jailed. Of course...only jailed because public flogging and caning would be deemed uncivilized. If dead people can vote that practice should be stopped. Perhaps the reason why it is important because the issue of voter fraud, voter intimidation, ballot stuffing, lost and missing ballots, mystery ballots, etc happens EVERY ELECTION. Maybe its time that ended...huh? And if this guy exposed a problem...I dont give a **** if you hate him...and I dont give a **** if you have GAWD I LOVE HATING FOX NEWS tattood on your dick in gold Krylon...I dont care if you and the other Fox news Bashers have coffee and whack each other with sticks...the fraud...ALL of it...should end. If you disagree...its likely because you are on the side of people that just...keep...doing it.

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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Let me ask you...Ive seen several people here say that the 'crime' committed was the guy committed voter fraud by requesting ballots of dead people. Did he? And did he get those ballots? And if so...would you say that is a problem?

    Personally...I think elections are supposed to mean something. I think douchebags that stuff ballot boxes ought to go to jail. I think people that fraudulently register or entice others to register fraudulently ought to go to jail. I think voter fraud or intimidation of all kind should be identified and the perpetrators should be jailed. Of course...only jailed because public flogging and caning would be deemed uncivilized. If dead people can vote that practice should be stopped. Perhaps the reason why it is important because the issue of voter fraud, voter intimidation, ballot stuffing, lost and missing ballots, mystery ballots, etc happens EVERY ELECTION. Maybe its time that ended...huh? And if this guy exposed a problem...I dont give a **** if you hate him...and I dont give a **** if you have GAWD I LOVE HATING FOX NEWS tattood on your dick in gold Krylon...I dont care if you and the other Fox news Bashers have coffee and whack each other with sticks...the fraud...ALL of it...should end. If you disagree...its likely because you are on the side of people that just...keep...doing it.
    We have no way to know what actually happened because all we have is an O'Keefe video and we know those are completely unreliable. In the past they have actively portrayed something as happening that did not in fact happen the way he portrayed it. That may very well be the case here. Somebody earlier pointed out, for example, that they check the ballots when you turn them in, not when you get them... If that's so, then the whole video is totally meaningless. But I'm not going to waste time speculating about what the scam may be this time. We've been fooled enough times by this guy. He doesn't get any more chances.

    One note though, of course fraud happens every election. In every national election there has ever been anywhere in the world there has always been some amount of fraud, and no matter what procedures we implement there will always be some fraud in the future. You can't reduce it to zero more than you can reduce any other kind of crime to zero no matter what you do. But, what matters isn't just "is there any crime" it is "what is the crime rate", and despite the frequent media coverage, by all indications voter fraud appears to make up an incredibly small percentage of votes cast. No matter what happens, you will continue to see stories on the news about voter fraud regularly for as long as the audience tunes in to those stories. That doesn't mean it is a significant problem. In a nation of 311 million there are incidents of every possible crime no matter if the crime rate is virtually zero or if it is high.

    Now, even with a statistically minor problem like voter fraud, we should take reasonable measures to prevent it. For sure. But some politicians in both parties, but especially on the right, are trying to use the hysteria over voter fraud to force through measures that really are designed to give them personally an artificial advantage in the elections. For example, focusing on removing dead people from the registration database it easy and doesn't hurt anybody. I have no problem at all with that. Even requiring a valid photo id, no problem there. You do those two things and you have done everything you can do to prevent fraud in the polling place. But, many politicians are trying to go way beyond that. For example, some states are now planning to require not just that you have a valid ID, but that the ID be issued by the state you're in and that it have your current address. That does nothing at all to make the process more fraud proof. If you are registered there and have a valid ID, you're supposed to be voting and you can only vote one time and only where you're registered, regardless of whether you forgot to update your address with the DMV last time you moved. The reason they're pushing for those kinds of extra requirements are because they have calculated that it will skew the next election in their favor. Maybe a Democratic politician represents a district where the elderly tend to vote Republican, so he supports that measure because he knows that many people living in retirement homes that don't drive any more don't bother updating their ID, so they wouldn't be able to vote. Maybe a Republican represents a district where part of it is poorer and mostly uses public transportation and that part votes for Democrats, so he supports the measure because he knows that people who don't drive aren't required to update their driver's license when they move, so he knows that fewer people from that community will end up being able to vote.

    We can take steps to prevent fraud, but anytime you let politicians change the way voting works you need to be ultra cautious. In my view the radical overblowing of the threat of voter fraud is nothing more than an attempt to manipulate you into throwing that caution to the wind and in your frenzy to rectify this largely fictional problem, to overlook the fact that they are rigging the elections in their own favor. Don't fall for it. Get your information about how serious voter fraud is from neutral studies, not O'Keefe videos and Fox headlines. Think about what is the absolute smallest change that would prevent that fraud, don't just jump on the bandwagon of anybody claiming they want to address voter fraud.

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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    We have no way to know what actually happened because all we have is an O'Keefe video and we know those are completely unreliable. In the past they have actively portrayed something as happening that did not in fact happen the way he portrayed it. That may very well be the case here. Somebody earlier pointed out, for example, that they check the ballots when you turn them in, not when you get them... If that's so, then the whole video is totally meaningless. But I'm not going to waste time speculating about what the scam may be this time. We've been fooled enough times by this guy. He doesn't get any more chances.

    One note though, of course fraud happens every election. In every national election there has ever been anywhere in the world there has always been some amount of fraud, and no matter what procedures we implement there will always be some fraud in the future. You can't reduce it to zero more than you can reduce any other kind of crime to zero no matter what you do. But, what matters isn't just "is there any crime" it is "what is the crime rate", and despite the frequent media coverage, by all indications voter fraud appears to make up an incredibly small percentage of votes cast. No matter what happens, you will continue to see stories on the news about voter fraud regularly for as long as the audience tunes in to those stories. That doesn't mean it is a significant problem. In a nation of 311 million there are incidents of every possible crime no matter if the crime rate is virtually zero or if it is high.

    Now, even with a statistically minor problem like voter fraud, we should take reasonable measures to prevent it. For sure. But some politicians in both parties, but especially on the right, are trying to use the hysteria over voter fraud to force through measures that really are designed to give them personally an artificial advantage in the elections. For example, focusing on removing dead people from the registration database it easy and doesn't hurt anybody. I have no problem at all with that. Even requiring a valid photo id, no problem there. You do those two things and you have done everything you can do to prevent fraud in the polling place. But, many politicians are trying to go way beyond that. For example, some states are now planning to require not just that you have a valid ID, but that the ID be issued by the state you're in and that it have your current address. That does nothing at all to make the process more fraud proof. If you are registered there and have a valid ID, you're supposed to be voting and you can only vote one time and only where you're registered, regardless of whether you forgot to update your address with the DMV last time you moved. The reason they're pushing for those kinds of extra requirements are because they have calculated that it will skew the next election in their favor. Maybe a Democratic politician represents a district where the elderly tend to vote Republican, so he supports that measure because he knows that many people living in retirement homes that don't drive any more don't bother updating their ID, so they wouldn't be able to vote. Maybe a Republican represents a district where part of it is poorer and mostly uses public transportation and that part votes for Democrats, so he supports the measure because he knows that people who don't drive aren't required to update their driver's license when they move, so he knows that fewer people from that community will end up being able to vote.

    We can take steps to prevent fraud, but anytime you let politicians change the way voting works you need to be ultra cautious. In my view the radical overblowing of the threat of voter fraud is nothing more than an attempt to manipulate you into throwing that caution to the wind and in your frenzy to rectify this largely fictional problem, to overlook the fact that they are rigging the elections in their own favor. Don't fall for it. Get your information about how serious voter fraud is from neutral studies, not O'Keefe videos and Fox headlines. Think about what is the absolute smallest change that would prevent that fraud, don't just jump on the bandwagon of anybody claiming they want to address voter fraud.
    You may not get this yet, but as soon as I see the word 'Fox' in anything you post I completely ignore pretty much evberything else as drool and drivel. Ive never cited Fox...dont watch Fox...dont give a **** about them and laugh at you and people like you that spend some much time obsessing over them or use your repeated weak-ass tactic of Auuuuuuugh!!!! Fox News Fix News Fox News!!!"

    EVERY election there are allegations of voter fraud, voter intimidation, etc. Wherever it exists it should be eliminated. Florida came down to panels of people with magnifying glasses hand counting every ballot to determine a national election. Iowa just came down to 8 votes. IF fraud can occur it should be identified and fixed...we shouldnt have people ramming their heads even FURTHER up their asses because they dont like the messenger.

  7. #77
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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    EVERY election there are allegations of voter fraud, voter intimidation, etc. Wherever it exists it should be eliminated. Florida came down to panels of people with magnifying glasses hand counting every ballot to determine a national election. Iowa just came down to 8 votes. IF fraud can occur it should be identified and fixed...we shouldnt have people ramming their heads even FURTHER up their asses because they dont like the messenger.
    Well, the post you replied to responds directly to this argument, so if you have any counter arguments to my post, lets hear them.

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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    The video is faked?
    They have all been taken so far out of context that they have been fake so far... why not now?
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack, replying to another View Post
    You may not get this yet, but as soon as I see the word 'Fox' in anything you post I completely ignore pretty much evberything else as drool and drivel. [...]
    Not a very intellectual approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack, continuing View Post
    Iowa just came down to 8 votes.
    The Iowa caucus vote is non-binding. From a legal or delegate standpoint it means absolutely nothing. See Iowa Republican caucuses, 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (para. 4).

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack, concluding View Post
    IF fraud can occur it should be identified and fixed...we shouldnt have people ramming their heads even FURTHER up their asses because they dont like the messenger.
    But if the messenger is a proven liar, shouldn't the message at least be inspected for honesty and validity? To be sure, it looks like a handful of ballots were available for recently deceased people. Does that mean that government-issued photo-ID is necessary for voters? Of course not -- it means that the list of registered voters must be more vigorously policed with regards to the recently deceased. Do you think that was the message that O'Keefe was intending to send?

    Or do you think he was trying to send the message that government-issued photo-ID is necessary for voters? To combat voter fraud that, since he could not find, he merely committed himself (the O'Keefe M.O., BTW). . . . .
    Last edited by Karl; 01-15-12 at 08:11 PM.

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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    The video is faked?
    Wouldn't be the first time for O'Keefe. Given his history, almost anything he says is suspect. He's the boy who cried wolf on "liberal evildoing."


    Now.....prove that none of those faked votes were used by Republicans. I bet you can't.

    Voter ID is fine. I do suspect those that make it a big issue. A quick google search shows that 248,476 votes were cast in New Hampshire according to AP. 900 as a percentage of 248,476 works out to less than 1% Is that a huge problem? Republicans want it because a suppressed turnout is good news for them historically. Democrats don't want it for the same reason. Stop pretending like this is a giant problem that requires an expansion of federal power into how elections are run. It's not principle, it's who wins.
    Last edited by rocket88; 01-15-12 at 08:13 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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